Ullrich admits to blood doping... Finally.

[mazambaan]

Only a matter of time and in fact I thought he'd already had a positive but maybe that was "recreational" rather than performance doping.

 

More and more obviously is that just about everyone doped. Holding out for Jens Voigt though.

 

Armstrong may have doped more and cleverer with the Ferrari but he wasn't the only Ferrari. What I think Armstrong did do was set the tone for what say Sky did last year (not the doping). Super team, one goal for one leader who called the shots, sometimes in the most brutal way. He's got the temperament of a Shumacher; win; at all costs and by any means.

[Jaco-fiets]

Try David Walsh's 7 Deadly Sins next.

 

One *** read!

[ThaStig]

LA and Ulrich were my favourite riders (dopers) - They made the tour interesting.

 

I am sure the tour this year will still be interesting now that it is "supposedly***" clean and still a level playing field

 

*** -- Or maybe the doctors have become more clever and the top ten are still doping???? - Maybe we will know in 10 years time.

 

I also have Hamiltons book if someone wants to have/borrow it and I am keen to read David Walsh's book or other good books on the subject if one of you guys have for me.

Watch the docu-movie "Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It's about steriod use Yank-style. A freaking interesting eye-opener. It dispels the myth that only the Eastern block countries were doing it.

[splat]

I also have Hamiltons book if someone wants to have/borrow it and I am keen to read David Walsh's book or other good books on the subject if one of you guys have for me.

 

I just finished '7 Deadly Sins', and before that was David Millar's 'Racing Through the Dark'. Before that was Hamilton's book and before that Floyd's book (that was crap - a continuation of his lies)

 

Next up is Kimmage's 'Rough Ride'. I want to finish that before Le Tour starts.

 

I should be well educated by then, but I hope I am not too cynical to enjoy watching The tour...

[Agteros]

Watch the docu-movie "Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It's about steriod use Yank-style. A freaking interesting eye-opener. It dispels the myth that only the Eastern block countries were doing it.

Doubt it is a myth. More money in sport in the Western nations. We might just not want to admit that our heroes are not 'normal humans'. we need to get over this 'oh no, he/she is such a cheat. A doper! OMG, WTF. Why? Never expected that"

 

Jaimaca had a surge or sprinters beating all records a while ago? REALLY? What was the influence that caused that sudden sprinters surge?

 

Sport = Money. PEDs = better performance = more money....

 

We need to get over it (Our high horses that is!)

[ThaStig]

How did this topic sound gather the Lance fanboys?

 

Im not an Ulrich fan, but imo he is was one of those freaks of nature - the Eddy Merkx of his generation. However, I think he was almost too talented, and got results too easy early on. This made him complacent, perhaps even lazy.

 

He could have won more, but he came up against the ultimate doper, who had bought exclusive access to the wolds best doping expert, for his whole team. He was the equivalent of a soldier who is the best marksman, armed with a pistol, fighting a group of soldiers armed with machine guns. The playing field was not level.

 

I think Ferrari was LOL when watching the TDF at Fuentes. Ferrati had a good rider and he beat Fuentes every time, who had one of the best ever.

Everybody seems to miss one important point. ullrich was let down by his team strategy on more than one occasion and no amount of doping on his side was going to make him as successful as LA. He never really had a team fully devoted to the cause of winning the yellow jersey only, he had to share some of his resources with Zabel and later on he had to contend with Kloden and Vino usurping his authority. There were many other teams who were doping and had talented riders, but just did not have a focused strategy. IMHO

[Jaco-fiets]

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 2h

Jan Ullrich? Warm hearted. Amazing athlete. Great competitor. Loved toeing the line with you my friend.

 

LOL is LA being smug, sarcastic and friendly all in one sentence

 

 

 

LL you need to take of those chicken tinted glasses, last i looked LA still rode his bike to the finish in +/- 25'000 km of TDF, your'e making out like he got a free ride in the big red car with sunroof.

 

Although I like to read LL comments (I find them interesting and sometimes enlightening) i think he needs to step out of the bubble thought that because Lance had a good structure in the team (even if it was structured around doping) and a good dr to help him, he was a bigger cheat than the rest and therefor more guilty. If you doped you cheated even if you only could afford half the EPO Lance took or did not have a dr to tell you when to pin yourself. No such thing as a small sin or big sin. If you used a banned substance you cheated full stop.

 

Not getting into the bribing issue because i don't feel it is confirmed.

 

No amount of drugs will get a mediocre cyclist over those mountains in the front end of a pelaton for that matter. The guy was fully doped but you still have to be a extraordinary cyclist to cream the best of the other dopers

[Lucky Luke.]

Then same could be said about team sky then

 

UK Postal? Read the post. I'm talking about Sky.

[Lucky Luke.]

Watch the docu-movie "Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It's about steriod use Yank-style. A freaking interesting eye-opener. It dispels the myth that only the Eastern block countries were doing it.

 

I found this interview with Balco steroid pimp Victor Conte pretty interesting.

 

http://vimeo.com/51662984

[JGR]

Doubt it is a myth. More money in sport in the Western nations. We might just not want to admit that our heroes are not 'normal humans'. we need to get over this 'oh no, he/she is such a cheat. A doper! OMG, WTF. Why? Never expected that"

 

Jaimaca had a surge or sprinters beating all records a while ago? REALLY? What was the influence that caused that sudden sprinters surge?

 

Sport = Money. PEDs = better performance = more money....

 

We need to get over it (Our high horses that is!)

There was a doc on the Jamaician sprinters where they looked at the fastest sprinters and their genetics ect. Ultimately they deduced it was more nurture than nature. Their premise was that sprinting is their top sport, from a young ages there are so many running races, school level. It is also very cheap to start as opposed to many other sports. It is a good way for people to raise themselves out of poverty ect. Much like football in Brazil , long distance running in Ethiopa ..... It is also why All Blacks are so good, rugby is a religion there and to a large extend here in South Africa as well. Where there are excellent systems and coaching from a very young age. Take yesterdays game against Samoa - physically they are specimens but lack the technical knowledge ..why do you think there are not many golfers from 3rd world countries? anywho my 2c'

[JGR]

Everybody seems to miss one important point. ullrich was let down by his team strategy on more than one occasion and no amount of doping on his side was going to make him as successful as LA. He never really had a team fully devoted to the cause of winning the yellow jersey only, he had to share some of his resources with Zabel and later on he had to contend with Kloden and Vino usurping his authority. There were many other teams who were doping and had talented riders, but just did not have a focused strategy. IMHO

Post of the thread, excellent point ... he only lived to race the tour and everything was tailored around that. He crushed any upstarts in the team. Tactically he was right up there with the best. Maybe thats where that extra 0.5% came from to be the winner so many times

[Lucky Luke.]

But you also assume he was the only one with 'help' ... many tests from many riders could have been swept under the carpet, many signs (obvious) with many riders and they still carried on. People act as is LA/PS were the only team getting away with it and that is simply not true.

 

Many of these Doctors much the same as todays Doctors have a very similar level of skill, access to to dope, testing methods ect. I think its safe to assume he wasnt the only one who one doped up so why does your theory of inside help only extend to him?

 

It is true that the dope effects people differently, as does training at attlitude, use of 'legal' performance enhancers. At least throughout all this time he never looked like its head was going to explode form bloat ala ulruch, riis et al.

 

In Hamiltons book he speaks of micro dosing as well as LA uncompromising attitude towards training, diet ect. With regards to talent - im sure you have seen him decending like a demon, cutting across fields to avoid accidents, determination - flying past ulrich after two crashes. Regardless of the doping you kinda have to acknowledge him as a pretty darn good athlete

 

With regards to his first few years and dnf's - I stand corrected but think one or two of them the idea was that he wouldnt finish due to his age ect at the time? Didnt the current TDF champ just get a dnf at the giro?

 

Wasnt Hashim Amla dropped initially and after a few seasons came back to be the top batsmen in the world? LA himself admitting to not knowing how to ride GT's at the time. Trying to hit it hard from the beginning and having no real strategy.

 

Personally I would hate to be judged on my outputs in the early stages of my career and like most my output levels and quality is much higher now with a few years of experience - would it be fair to assume the same for LA/other sportmen?

 

The guy failed test after test and for years it came to nothing.

 

'99 tour - cortisone - BS TUE - that will do nicely, thanks Lance

'01 TDS - EPO - no problem, step right up on to the podium mr armstrong

'99 samples - was it 7 EPO positives revealed by Equipe in '05? - came to nothing

 

And these with forewarning of when the testers were coming.

 

Rasmussen - no positive, just a whereabouts violation - no tour for you buddy.

Landis - testosterone, gone.

Contador - a few picograms of clen - tour title stripped and Giro too, sanctioned.

Hamilton - popped at LA's request

 

Now I'm fine with all of these guys going down because I know they were all dirty, but to me there's nothing impressive on a sporting level about Armstrong finding a way to make his own positives disappear. That's all down to money and abuse of power.

 

People who still put Armstrong on a pedestal need to get real. The guy was a grade A grand tour failure until he went all-in with the money and the drugs post cancer.

 

Look to Ferrari, Tom the Weasel, The Hog, Fat Pat and Verbruggen. Thoese are the people who put your donkey on the podium in Paris. There are your sporting heros. Fat old men who knew how to cheat the system better than anybody, and make a pile of money in the process.

 

Ultimately the biggest laugh of all is that he could have gotten away with his 7 yellow jersies, but he shot himself in the foot by stepping on too many people on the way to paris.

 

His own ego and his douchebag personality ended up being the double barrelled shotgun that shot him in both feet.

 

By contrast, a guy like Big Mig, who quietly went about winning his five tours and disappeared from view thereafter - he's been left pretty much alone. It would probably be quite easy to dig the dirt on him, but no-one can be bothered. Merckx - most people don't even remember that he tested positive.

 

LA will always be remembered as a doper, because he loved the limelight, basked in it, dressed up like cancer jesus and worked almost as hard as he did on the bike to project another image. That's why he's a cock and will always be remembered as such.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Lucky Luke.

[JGR]

The guy failed test after test and for years it came to nothing.

 

'99 tour - cortisone - BS TUE - that will do nicely, thanks Lance

'01 TDS - EPO - no problem, step right up on to the podium mr armstrong

'99 samples - was it 7 EPO positives revealed by Equipe in '05? - came to nothing

 

And these with forewarning of when the testers were coming.

 

Rasmussen - no positive, just a whereabouts violation - no tour for you buddy.

Landis - testosterone, gone.

Contador - a few picograms of clen - tour title stripped and Giro too, sanctioned.

Hamilton - popped at LA's request

 

Now I'm fine with all of these guys going down because I know they were all dirty, but to me there's nothing impressive on a sporting level about Armstrong finding a way to make his own positives disappear. That's all down to money and abuse of power.

 

People who still put Armstrong on a pedestal need to get real. The guy was a grade A grand tour failure until he went all-in with the money and the drugs post cancer.

 

Look to Ferrari, Tom the Weasel, The Hog, Fat Pat and Verbruggen. Thoese are the people who put your donkey on the podium in Paris. There are your sporting heros. Fat old men who knew how to cheat the system better than anybody, and make a pile of money in the process.

 

Ultimately the biggest laugh of all is that he could have gotten away with his 7 yellow jersies, but he shot himself in the foot by stepping on too many people on the way to paris.

 

His own ego and his douchebag personality ended up being the double barrelled shotgun that shot him in both feet.

 

By contrast, a guy like Big Mig, who quietly went about winning his five tours and disappeared from view thereafter - he's been left pretty much alone. It would probably be quite easy to dig the dirt on him, but no-one can be bothered. Merckx - most people don't even remember that he tested positive.

 

LA will always be remembered as a doper, because he loved the limelight, basked in it, dressed up like cancer jesus and worked almost as hard as he did on the bike to project another image. That's why he's a cock and will always be remembered as such.

My point is not that he cheated or was an ego maniac, it was that he was still an excellent rider relative to his rivals at the time, who were fine athletes themselves.

 

If there were bribes to the extent you are saying would he have now outed the exact bodies who brought him down, ratified decisions and publicly torn him one?

 

Brides and collusion aside he was a hell of a rider (and of course a hell of a cheat)

 

AC is being tested in a different era to 99-05 and the punishment and controls are more stringent is guess, TH got caught with someone else blood in him, thats a little difficult to explain, with regards to where abouts the technique of hiding away and not answering the door is hardly revolutionary as TH explains.

 

Im happy to say and agree he was a douche and a cheat but why do you find it so difficult to admit that his flaws aside he was a great/talented cyclist?

 

Cancer jesus? a little disrespectful to people with cancer ....even if his foundation helped 10 people its more than mot of us have ever done.

[Lucky Luke.]

My point is not that he cheated or was an ego maniac, it was that he was still an excellent rider relative to his rivals at the time, who were fine athletes themselves.

 

If there were bribes to the extent you are saying would he have now outed the exact bodies who brought him down, ratified decisions and publicly torn him one?

 

Brides and collusion aside he was a hell of a rider (and of course a hell of a cheat)

 

AC is being tested in a different era to 99-05 and the punishment and controls are more stringent is guess, TH got caught with someone else blood in him, thats a little difficult to explain, with regards to where abouts the technique of hiding away and not answering the door is hardly revolutionary as TH explains.

 

Im happy to say and agree he was a douche and a cheat but why do you find it so difficult to admit that his flaws aside he was a great/talented cyclist?

 

Cancer jesus? a little disrespectful to people with cancer ....even if his foundation helped 10 people its more than mot of us have ever done.

 

How has Lance outed the UCI? Hamilton and Landis got the ball rolling there if I remember correctly.

 

Lance is very far from having told us the whole story. There are many people invested in him keeping silent about a lot of what went on.

 

What irks me most - continues to annoy me - is the warped part of human nature - displayed here and elsewhere - that idolises a selfish sociopath. Regardless of the fact that he cares not one iota for anyone but himself. I reckon many people just wish that they too could be free to behave like dickwads. I think there's a parallel there with African politics.

[ChUkKy]

How bad its sounds. I agree

Lance was still a f**king good cyclist!

 

I dunno what all the fuss about this doping is....

I mean, it seems to be a level playing field

[BeegMig]

The question should be .."Who hasn't doped ?

 

According to the narrator on the 100-year anniversary Tour de France feature on Super Sport...

Thomas Voeckler,,, and that is the reason he has not won the tour yet.