Bizarre Complexity

[Johan Bornman]

Bizarre Complexity

 

Last week we had the displeasure of having to replace a faulty hub on a new DT Swiss Tricon wheel. I am not a fan of DT Swiss and this design confirms to me that the company suffers from mad cow disease.

 

 

Have a look a this hub and ponder its construction for a minute. It is a lefty hub but that has no bearing on the argument.

It is constructer from three primary components, two flanges and one hub body. All three are milled from solid billet. The flanges are pinned via five grub screws onto the hub body and then bonded with epoxy. Each flange has 20 threaded holes. Five for the retaining pins and 15 for threaded spoke inserts. It is a 30 spoke wheel.

Each spoke is threaded – Easton style – at both ends and inserts into the rim via an elaborate device that I’ll discuss separately later on, since it requires some mention of its own.

What’s the problem, you may ask? Bizarre complexity. Firstly, the hub should have been forged (even machined if you really want to save money) from one piece of aluminium. This would have resulted in a strong flange that doesn’t require pins and glue. As it is, we had to replace this hub because the glue didn’t work and now there’s lash in the hub when you apply the brake.

Secondly, the threaded spoke inserts are bizarre. DT could have drilled and threaded the hub flange like Easton does, and screwed the spokes directly into the flange. Instead, they created a complex insert that threads into the flange and the spoke threads into that. The required tool is a special female Torx driver with very, very little bite area. The inserts are anodised aluminium.

It is a stupid design that was clearly done for marketing differentiation. It adds huge cost to the hub and zero benefits – zero. It looks over-engineered and contrived and reminds me of mag wheels on fast City Golfs with hundreds of hex screws turned in all over the place just for show. It is a pain to keep clean. It requires non-standard bladed spokes like those found on a time-trial bike. Speaking of the spokes – how stupid is it to paint spokes white on a mountainbike? The slightest chip shows up quickly and it does chip. Working on the spoke guarantees chipped paint.

DT has surpassed itself in setting the standard for stupid, rubbish products once again. You woyuld have thought that their carbon suspension forks and rubbish 340-series hubs are as low as you can go, but no. Pardon the alliteration

[Lone_Ranger]

Loving the righteous indignation .

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yissie. Now that's a prize example of engineering based darwin awards.

 

WTF were they thinking!?

[rock]

so how much does it weigh?

[olram_df]

Thanks for sharing that @Johan Bornman.

[Eldron]

Form over function = PITA!

[kennyg]

Obviously they have too much machine time on their hands.

 

You could cast the whole thing and tap the holes. Giving better strength to weight and saving on assembly time. Only bearing surfaces would need touch machining.

 

I am a fan of the 240 Dt and the 350 but not much else, had a 190 that almost killed me, 180 that shattered and a rear shock that got replaced in 3 hrs.

 

 

[Music Pirate]

Assonance.... not alliteration..... but you're excused anyway.....

[Johan Bornman]

Assonance.... not alliteration..... but you're excused anyway.....

Mea Culpa

[HowellingWulf]

Bizarre Complexity

 

Last week we had the displeasure of having to replace a faulty hub on a new DT Swiss Tricon wheel. I am not a fan of DT Swiss and this design confirms to me that the company suffers from mad cow disease.

 

 

Have a look a this hub and ponder its construction for a minute. It is a lefty hub but that has no bearing on the argument.

It is constructer from three primary components, two flanges and one hub body. All three are milled from solid billet. The flanges are pinned via five grub screws onto the hub body and then bonded with epoxy. Each flange has 20 threaded holes. Five for the retaining pins and 15 for threaded spoke inserts. It is a 30 spoke wheel.

Each spoke is threaded – Easton style – at both ends and inserts into the rim via an elaborate device that I’ll discuss separately later on, since it requires some mention of its own.

What’s the problem, you may ask? Bizarre complexity. Firstly, the hub should have been forged (even machined if you really want to save money) from one piece of aluminium. This would have resulted in a strong flange that doesn’t require pins and glue. As it is, we had to replace this hub because the glue didn’t work and now there’s lash in the hub when you apply the brake.

Secondly, the threaded spoke inserts are bizarre. DT could have drilled and threaded the hub flange like Easton does, and screwed the spokes directly into the flange. Instead, they created a complex insert that threads into the flange and the spoke threads into that. The required tool is a special female Torx driver with very, very little bite area. The inserts are anodised aluminium.

It is a stupid design that was clearly done for marketing differentiation. It adds huge cost to the hub and zero benefits – zero. It looks over-engineered and contrived and reminds me of mag wheels on fast City Golfs with hundreds of hex screws turned in all over the place just for show. It is a pain to keep clean. It requires non-standard bladed spokes like those found on a time-trial bike. Speaking of the spokes – how stupid is it to paint spokes white on a mountainbike? The slightest chip shows up quickly and it does chip. Working on the spoke guarantees chipped paint.

DT has surpassed itself in setting the standard for stupid, rubbish products once again. You woyuld have thought that their carbon suspension forks and rubbish 340-series hubs are as low as you can go, but no. Pardon the alliteration

Exactly what you said there. Now they can claim that is a CAD/CAM designed, FEA analyzed, machined from a single billet of unobtanium, using propriety machining techniques piece of equipment for heavy/professional use. All bonded to together with aircraft grade glues. Painted with arctic white military grade paints.... And charge a good couple of extra ZARs in the process...

[droo]

Erm... form over function? It's fugly and crap. 0/2. Neeeext.

[SwissVan]

I'll stick up for the poor DT Swissie folk, just cause there's nothing else to argue about at the moment.

 

So.... my first stone asks: How many years of hub design and manufacture do you lot have?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I'll stick up for the poor DT Swissie folk, just cause there's nothing else to argue about at the moment.

 

So.... my first stone asks: How many years of hub design and manufacture do you lot have?

 

Jack, come now. Enough to know that stupid, un-necessary "design" attributes like this are doomed to fail.

 

I have enough of an engineering background to know *** when I see it. Pure, unadulterated design faux pas. In the pursuit of difference.

[SwissVan]

Jack, come now. Enough to know that stupid, un-necessary "design" attributes like this are doomed to fail.

 

I have enough of an engineering background to know *** when I see it. Pure, unadulterated design faux pas. In the pursuit of difference.

 

Jaaa ja but you didnt answer the question!!

 

Maybe they have a good reason for glueing the flanges onto the body,... like a large batch of surplus glue that was going to expire soon and they had to use it or loose it...its expensive to recycle glue in switz..

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

Jaaa ja but you didnt answer the question!!

 

Maybe they have a good reason for glueing the flanges onto the body,... like a large batch of surplus glue that was going to expire soon and they had to use it or loose it...its expensive to recycle glue in switz..

 

Would have seen more use if it had been given to the homeless.

[Johan Bornman]

I'll stick up for the poor DT Swissie folk, just cause there's nothing else to argue about at the moment.

 

So.... my first stone asks: How many years of hub design and manufacture do you lot have?

 

Trolling doesn't suit you.