Guest DieBees Posted September 14, 2013 Share Gridrunner, you are the only one in your conversation.... This is a condition you know. Lexx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridrunner Posted September 14, 2013 Share Gridrunner, you are the only one in your conversation.... This is a condition you know. The reason I talk to myself is that I'm the only one whose answers I accept.George Carlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DieBees Posted September 14, 2013 Share The reason I talk to myself is that I'm the only one whose answers I accept.George Carlin Ha ha. Good answer. You desteve to be in your own company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowRider Posted September 14, 2013 Share This is going nowhere. It is clear that ASG stole the event from the Jacaranda Cycling Club, and the same probably happened with Edenvale Peddlers and the Emperors Palace Classic. The OP has more than proofed his case. The contract was shown. According to the OP the race was registered with CSA by Jacaranda Cycling Club, and payments was accepted by CSA, as required by CSA to present a race. It is clear that ASG don't give a dam. They don't deny knowing about the 3 year contract that expired in 2012 and Arrogantly tells the cycling community to go scr_ew themselves. They keep going back to the same, free, life threatening venue. What is more worrisome is that CSA accepted the race registration, and the money, and have done that for the past 11, 12, 13... years. Now they ("Gregory van Heerden") turns around and hands the race to someone else. I think it is time for an internal investigation to determine the relationship between A.S.G. events & holdings , Mr de Villiers & Gregory van Heerden. I make an appeal to ASG Heinrich Dannhauser and Michael de Jongh, to stop this nonsense and to give back what does not belong to them, and to concentrate on their other 48 races to try and make a success of them. Cycling clubs, why don't you combine your efforts and get an urgent Injunction against CSA "Gregory van Heerden" decision. You are entitled to it. ASG can't carry on with the race without CSA approval, and the traffic department, and insurance agencies will immediately withdraw from the race if CSA does not sanction the race. If ASG continues with there arrogance, it is maybe time to say the following sentence 50 times, ASG presents 50 cycling events! (x50) and then to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! Forthefun and Pants Boy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASG Posted September 14, 2013 Share Guys, ASG invested more than R3m (nett) in cycling events in the last 12 months alone....if it was not for this and our co-sponsors countless big races will not even see the time of day. Any suggestions that fortunes are being made are laughable. If it was not for the scores of volunteers and staff members working crazy hours and sacrificing their weekends very few events will actually make it on the cycling calendar (not just refering to ASG events). This does not mean we do not want to present world-class events...WE DO and we will continue to take all feedback and (accurate) criticism on the cheek while trying to improve under sometimes trying circumstances. This so-called one-sided contract was never accepted or signed and any reasonable attempts by ASG to reach a compromise dismissed or ignored. We still stand by our initial comments and posts... NicoBoshoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted September 14, 2013 Share Guys, ASG invested more than R3m (nett) in cycling events in the last 12 months alone....if it was not for this and our co-sponsors countless big races will not even see the time of day. Any suggestions that fortunes are being made are laughable. If it was not for the scores of volunteers and staff members working crazy hours and sacrificing their weekends very few events will actually make it on the cycling calendar (not just refering to ASG events). This does not mean we do not want to present world-class events...WE DO and we will continue to take all feedback and (accurate) criticism on the cheek while trying to improve under sometimes trying circumstances. This so-called one-sided contract was never accepted or signed and any reasonable attempts by ASG to reach a compromise dismissed or ignored. We still stand by our initial comments and posts... Fair comment. Some questions, though...you talk about volunteers...weren't these from the club itself - as per the contract - or did you source them? What's in it for them? Were they properly managed? Were they properly coached? If an accident happens - having read the negative comments about the race that were posted - who is liable? The contract is unsigned? So, where does that leave the race legally? Where does it leave the participants legally? Who is reponsible? Disclaimer: I rode the Satellite MTB race some years back when it was under the Telkom banner. Was the crappest race I ever did. Edited September 14, 2013 by Tumbleweed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted September 14, 2013 Share This is rof this debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witkop Posted September 14, 2013 Share Guys, ASG invested more than R3m (nett) in cycling events in the last 12 months alone....if it was not for this and our co-sponsors countless big races will not even see the time of day. Any suggestions that fortunes are being made are laughable. If it was not for the scores of volunteers and staff members working crazy hours and sacrificing their weekends very few events will actually make it on the cycling calendar (not just refering to ASG events). This does not mean we do not want to present world-class events...WE DO and we will continue to take all feedback and (accurate) criticism on the cheek while trying to improve under sometimes trying circumstances. This so-called one-sided contract was never accepted or signed and any reasonable attempts by ASG to reach a compromise dismissed or ignored. We still stand by our initial comments and posts... Here is the rub, ASG has INVESTED, not donated, committed, sponsored, or given, but INVESTED. This means that it is a business decision, which if wise will materialise in a return of capital that is higher than the prime lending rate. To link business decisions with volunteerism, is rather crude. If the primary organiser indicates that he is wanting a return on INVESTMENT, then the volunteer is essentially unpaid labour. Also it would then be wrong for the INVESTOR to complain about "working crazy hours and sacrificing", and as one poster said if it was such a shleppe why do it 50 times a year? That would be a bad investment, and as ASG is not doing too badly from all its activities, and is not slowing down their efforts in race organising, then maybe it is a very good investment, if not in direct revenue, but rather in marketing and creating a customer base. I think Ann Rand was correct about self interest, and I don't think it is fair that a business whines about how much they have "done" for a sport. Forthefun, Pants Boy and Andrew Steer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted September 14, 2013 Share Here is the rub, ASG has INVESTED, not donated, committed, sponsored, or given, but INVESTED. This means that it is a business decision, which if wise will materialise in a return of capital that is higher than the prime lending rate. To link business decisions with volunteerism, is rather crude. If the primary organiser indicates that he is wanting a return on INVESTMENT, then the volunteer is essentially unpaid labour. Also it would then be wrong for the INVESTOR to complain about "working crazy hours and sacrificing", and as one poster said if it was such a shleppe why do it 50 times a year? That would be a bad investment, and as ASG is not doing too badly from all its activities, and is not slowing down their efforts in race organising, then maybe it is a very good investment, if not in direct revenue, but rather in marketing and creating a customer base. I think Ann Rand was correct about self interest, and I don't think it is fair that a business whines about how much they have "done" for a sport. Ayn Rand. Forthefun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted September 14, 2013 Share Ayn Rand. Rand Yen???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forthefun Posted September 14, 2013 Share ASG IS NOT INVESTING IN CYCLING , THEY INVESTING IN THERE OWN BUSINESS. IT'S 100% money making. I think a proper company doing races could bring entry's down to half, increase the safety and have better water tables and properly better prizes. ASG are just spongeing on Cycling. But a lot are wishing up.... They need to REALLY ,,,, REALLY start giving back or they lose support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylark Posted September 15, 2013 Share ASG is not denying they "stole" these events nor are they showing clear evidence they have the rights to host them. More like they are doing a side step on the issue and rather doing some board room monuvoures and pr , like don't see how bad we are, rather look at the good you know, look at how we "helping" the sport out of the goodness of our money incentivized hearts. We've only got like 50 or so events, why would we want to steal more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Cassidy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Guys, ASG invested more than R3m (nett) in cycling events in the last 12 months alone....if it was not for this and our co-sponsors countless big races will not even see the time of day. Any suggestions that fortunes are being made are laughable. If it was not for the scores of volunteers and staff members working crazy hours and sacrificing their weekends very few events will actually make it on the cycling calendar (not just refering to ASG events). This does not mean we do not want to present world-class events...WE DO and we will continue to take all feedback and (accurate) criticism on the cheek while trying to improve under sometimes trying circumstances. This so-called one-sided contract was never accepted or signed and any reasonable attempts by ASG to reach a compromise dismissed or ignored. We still stand by our initial comments and posts... Really. I am not so sure about this. If you do not make money then why do it for the love of the sport? 50 times a year. I beleive you employ Mr. de Villiers. To Messrs De Villiers and du Toit this is a huge income. Mr du Toit has a business supplying the medals. Mr de Villiers does all the printing. They have scores of paid volenteers through a church. And And And. Why does the 2 gentleman organise so many races? They have nothing to do with their time. I am not so sure. Making money and lots of it? Yes baby for sure. Do the maths. Without a sponsor you can show a profit with 120 riders then you buy and supply coke and not that watered down Powerade krap. You pay for everything else including route marking and marshalls. You pay for lead vehicles. At most of your events everything is sponsored. And it baffles me that you think we are stupid enough to believe all you say. I will give you credit though. Without the events being taken over by the 2 gentleman most events would have been of the calendar because of lack of organising skills and commitment from clubs. It is a fact that at most clubs members are just members and are only interested in cycling. Just a few 3 or 4 members are actively involved in running the club and organising races. Maybe you are involved as part of your marketing strategy where you get tax rebates for one and exposure to your clients and dealer network. DIPSLICK and Andrew Steer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Cassidy Posted September 16, 2013 Share ASG IS NOT INVESTING IN CYCLING , THEY INVESTING IN THERE OWN BUSINESS. IT'S 100% money making. I think a proper company doing races could bring entry's down to half, increase the safety and have better water tables and properly better prizes. ASG are just spongeing on Cycling. But a lot are wishing up.... They need to REALLY ,,,, REALLY start giving back or they lose support. You present races to make money. Any proper events company will still try and up the entry fees and reduce the costs and get more sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Cassidy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Is this called a Hostile take over? Andrew Steer and DIPSLICK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted September 16, 2013 Share Is this called a Hostile take over? I think so...... The whole thread is FULL of hostility!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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