Lucky Luke. Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I have a steel Condor from my time in the big smoke - great bike, super comfy, heavy as **** but. Did my first Argust sub-3 on it.
rouxtjie Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I have a steel Condor from my time in the big smoke - great bike, super comfy, heavy as **** but. Did my first Argust sub-3 on it.Reynold and TT have made great leaps ito tube strength and weight....They can apparently draw 953 extremely thin whilst still being as tough as nails...not cheap though Lucky Luke. 1
Eldron Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 Reynold and TT have made great leaps ito tube strength and weight....They can apparently draw 953 extremely thin whilst still being as tough as nails...not cheap though Less than 0.3mm tubes that will make a ~1300g road bike. Not a bad weight! Almost double the latest carbon uber frames though.... Personal choice - it rocks!
rouxtjie Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Less than 0.3mm tubes that will make a ~1300g road bike. Not a bad weight! Almost double the latest carbon uber frames though.... Personal choice - it rocks!Sure still way off the latest carbon tech, but then I wonder what the next material will be....unobtainium mined on mars or fakolaminium only found on saturn's 3rd moon??? who the hell knows. I do seriously wonder how different reynold 853 vs true temper platinium OX...some info from metulargigisisisisissst point of view?
Eldron Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 I do seriously wonder how different reynold 853 vs true temper platinium OX...some info from metulargigisisisisissst point of view? Metallurgist hat on: 853 is around 25% "stronger" than the OX tubing. This means that if you make a frame set from each with the same strength the 853 bike will be 25% lighter (thinner side wall for same strength). Ride quality is a different matter altogether. Both are air hardened and have the same elongation so ride quality should be similar. Frame design, butting and tube diameters have a far greater effect on ride quality than steel alloy. Rider hat (helmut!) on: I reckon without extensive testing most riders would not feel the difference between the two steels. Like the metallurgist said - it's all in the frame design. A more flexible frame will feel more comfortable but will be less efficient - more energy into bending the frame rather than propelling it forward... rouxtjie and Chro Mo 2
rouxtjie Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Metallurgist hat on: 853 is around 25% "stronger" than the OX tubing. This means that if you make a frame set from each with the same strength the 853 bike will be 25% lighter (thinner side wall for same strength). Ride quality is a different matter altogether. Both are air hardened and have the same elongation so ride quality should be similar. Frame design, butting and tube diameters have a far greater effect on ride quality than steel alloy. Rider hat (helmut!) on: I reckon without extensive testing most riders would not feel the difference between the two steels. Like the metallurgist said - it's all in the frame design. A more flexible frame will feel more comfortable but will be less efficient - more energy into bending the frame rather than propelling it forward...Ta thanks, good explanation  Just one more thing though, is the KSI rating the indicator of strength, I have them as very close to together for both.
Flippa Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I have two steel bikes. A Kona Unit from 4130 Chromoly and a Bridgestone RB1 built from Ishiwata 022, rumoured to be at least as good in its day as 853. Love the feel of steel. quintonb 1
rouxtjie Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) KSI - such a wonderful unit.......... NOT!!!It some sort of indicator of how much repeated punishment a tube can take below its known breaking point before it starts konking in....like a level of fatigue... I think Ping Ping Ping.....Eldron!!!!! Edited October 2, 2013 by rouxtjie
Chro Mo Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I am a firm believer that ride quality is far more important for all but the very best in our sport. We, as "average" riders, spend more time in the saddle. While a carbon or aluminium bike may be lighter, and transfer the power to the wheels more efficiently, the ride tends to be less forgiving - as it should. As a consequence, we "average" riders will feel more fatigued at the end of a race/outing/whatever on this type of bike. This will negatively impact our overall performance in the back end of that outing. I find that on my steel frame, I am perhaps not so fast out of the gate, but at the end of the race/ride, I am in much better shape than some people on much more advanced bikes than mine. No science involved, just personal experience. In Reynolds tubing the difference between 531 and 853 will be far more pronounced that between 853 and 953 - we laymen will struggle to feel the difference between, say, 853 and OX platinum. 531 to 853 will be noticeable, I'll warrant... rouxtjie 1
Chro Mo Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Metallurgist hat on: 853 is around 25% "stronger" than the OX tubing. This means that if you make a frame set from each with the same strength the 853 bike will be 25% lighter (thinner side wall for same strength). Ride quality is a different matter altogether. Both are air hardened and have the same elongation so ride quality should be similar. Frame design, butting and tube diameters have a far greater effect on ride quality than steel alloy. Rider hat (helmut!) on: I reckon without extensive testing most riders would not feel the difference between the two steels. Like the metallurgist said - it's all in the frame design. A more flexible frame will feel more comfortable but will be less efficient - more energy into bending the frame rather than propelling it forward...Absolutely agree... Nice explanation. Thanks.
Wyatt Earp Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Â Â Rider hat (helmut!) on: I reckon without extensive testing most riders would not feel the difference between the two steels. it's all in the frame design. Â Very true.My Budnitz is not of the sam metal quality as my Niner or my Ritchey, but it is an incredibly comfortable ride.I firmly believe the design made the biggest impact there.
rouxtjie Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I am a firm believer that ride quality is far more important for all but the very best in our sport. We, as "average" riders, spend more time in the saddle. While a carbon or aluminium bike may be lighter, and transfer the power to the wheels more efficiently, the ride tends to be less forgiving - as it should. As a consequence, we "average" riders will feel more fatigued at the end of a race/outing/whatever on this type of bike. This will negatively impact our overall performance in the back end of that outing. I find that on my steel frame, I am perhaps not so fast out of the gate, but at the end of the race/ride, I am in much better shape than some people on much more advanced bikes than mine. No science involved, just personal experience. In Reynolds tubing the difference between 531 and 853 will be far more pronounced that between 853 and 953 - we laymen will struggle to feel the difference between, say, 853 and OX platinum. 531 to 853 will be noticeable, I'll warrant...Yea from what I am reading it seems to be much of a muchness, where lots of custom US builders are switching over to OX Platinum...lots of people thought it was because OX was better, more rust resistant blah blah blah, turns out it was because of the exchange rate and with reynolds(british company) you dealing in pounds / euros and with OX(american) you dealing in dollars. Seems like there is nothing between them, both can be drawn thin and have air hardened properties. PS, but it seems some of the manufacturers are sneaky russians though, they would proudly put the reynolds or TT sticker on the frame, but only build the main triangle out of it and use 4130 or high tensile for the rest....blixems
Chro Mo Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Very true.My Budnitz is not of the sam metal quality as my Niner or my Ritchey, but it is an incredibly comfortable ride.I firmly believe the design made the biggest impact there.Those curved tubes have got to have something to do with it. Form and function blended. The Jones truss frame apparently has amazing ride qualities for a non-suspended frame. Same principles apply.
Eldron Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 Ta thanks, good explanation  Just one more thing though, is the KSI rating the indicator of strength, I have them as very close to together for both. Ok - after a not so intensive google session I can't find the properties of True Temper tubes. There is a range of OX tubung (as far as I can remember) - OX Gold (OX-III?), OX Platinum etc. But without being able to find their mechanical proprties I can't say jack about it. Dangnabbit.
Eldron Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Shameless plug for Niner. They order their own "custom" 853 tubes from Reynolds (drawn differently, varying wall thickneses etc.). This to me suggests that Niner have put some thought into the design. Whether that thought translates into a "better" frame is impossible to tell in the real world though. I like the brand. And the colours. :-) Edited October 2, 2013 by Eldron rouxtjie 1
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