First Tokai MTB AGM

[Hairy]

Once words has been said, they can not be retracted, only forgiven.......

no retraction required, only that sniping at each other stop

[Guest OldFlow]

no retraction required, only that sniping at each other stop

 

I haven't sniped for a good while now

[Hairy]

I know Old Flow (John'o) personally and in the many many years he has been cycling he has done alot of spade work at Tokai and also assisted many novice and intermediate riders in their riding by either material donations / assistance or very well laid out and planned skills clinics teaching riders how to approach trail specific obstacles, handle their bikes well, etc.

 

The first thing that he teaches all are to respect the trail and not brake in corner and also how to shift your weight around in order to stop hard and fast, but without damaging the trail or locking up your rear wheel.

 

I do not know him as a malicious person, or a person who would discredit another without him first trying to resolve matters.

 

POS, he has noted that the work/design work to the trail you mentioned not being up to standard (As I understand the posting) but has also noted that you have worked hard.... he is not taking away the fact that you have slaved away on the trails.

[Thor Buttox]

Hey, sure, bury the hatchet. I can and I have for the benefit of moving forward. In the interest of Tokai's benefit I will meet with Vince, Duane Richard, Johno and chat about what we all want for the trails, what we've all wanted from the start. You must remember that I have worked with Vince and Duane for nearly 3 years, they know me and I know them. I don't know really know John, I though I did but I see that he has no shame in slandering me, the work I have done (yes oldflow I know you value my liaison with Parks but I have done more, ) and even the people who have come out to help while we face constraints that need to be respected. He claims we should have world class trails now within the constraints, but I still wonder if he understands that it is these very constraints that prevents us from getting world class trails now.

 

Something tells me that some damage has been done that will tarnish my image. If I read the first page, the punches thrown are not fitting of anything advertised as "fair".

 

Delete the thread.. 5129 views and I don't get to set the record straight.

 

Fair?

I think that there are quite a lot of guys on here who support you, and I am willing to bet that it will be much, much easier for you to put the record straight in the AGM by putting forward your ideas/plans/etc, with Meurant as an arbitrator? I also think from the reaction yesterday that there are a fair number of independents who have a lot more to input to this and have expertise to back you up (or not).

I don't for one moment expert you to be happy about the tone of those original posts, but as much personal animosity you may feel, maybe keep it off this forum? My 2c...

Edited February 4, 2014 by Thor Buttox

[marko35s]

I know Old Flow (John'o) personally and in the many many years he has been cycling he has done alot of spade work at Tokai and also assisted many novice and intermediate riders in their riding by either material donations / assistance or very well laid out and planned skills clinics teaching riders how to approach trail specific obstacles, handle their bikes well, etc.

 

The first thing that he teaches all are to respect the trail and not brake in corner and also how to shift your weight around in order to stop hard and fast, but without damaging the trail or locking up your rear wheel.

 

I do not know him as a malicious person, or a person who would discredit another without him first trying to resolve matters.

 

POS, he has noted that the work/design work to the trail you mentioned not being up to standard (As I understand the posting) but has also noted that you have worked hard.... he is not taking away the fact that you have slaved away on the trails.

For somebody that doesn't know him personally the following remarks taken from the first few pages here could just be taken as a little insulting and malicious -

 

we could, and should, be seeing much better trail. Instead we have clumsy, awkward, poorly planned and designed crap

we want premium trails back in Tokai, not the amateurish stuff we have seen haphazardly spreading across the mountain

Hopefully the members elected to the new Tokai MTB committee will be experienced,knowledgeable riders and be respected in the local MTB community" I feel strongly that that's not what we have presently

 

It was hardly designed to win friends now was it?

Edited February 4, 2014 by marko35s

[Headshot]

I know Old Flow (John'o) personally and in the many many years he has been cycling he has done alot of spade work at Tokai and also assisted many novice and intermediate riders in their riding by either material donations / assistance or very well laid out and planned skills clinics teaching riders how to approach trail specific obstacles, handle their bikes well, etc.

 

The first thing that he teaches all are to respect the trail and not brake in corner and also how to shift your weight around in order to stop hard and fast, but without damaging the trail or locking up your rear wheel.

 

I do not know him as a malicious person, or a person who would discredit another without him first trying to resolve matters.

 

POS, he has noted that the work/design work to the trail you mentioned not being up to standard (As I understand the posting) but has also noted that you have worked hard.... he is not taking away the fact that you have slaved away on the trails.

 

I have to agree with the Hairy one on this. Was Johno simply bluntly honest about his thoughts on the trails at Tokai, or being malicious. I believe the former. Some feelings got hurt along the way, but that's life, isn't it and we are all adults?

 

As a similarly concerned Tokai mtbe'r I also don't doubt that the intentions of Deon, Myles and all the hard working volunteers have been good, but that does not mean what has been built thus far is up to scratch. When jumps start appearing at the top of rises or virtually in corners and massive berms are built where smaller could be better, we have to start asking why. And why also, as Mayhem stated earlier, if the new Snake trails were meant to be temporary until the burn happens, has so much effort gone into building berms and features, where perhaps money and time could have been better spent maintaining existing trails and leaving the snakes for a serious professional build after the fire?

 

We all ride all over the grater Cape Town area and know what is going down at Tygerberg, Jonkers and Welvanpas. Sure, there are differences from terrain to gradient to owner management requirements, but the differences are still very noticeable. The new xc/dh route at Hoogekraal is amazing - an xc route that will allow for skills development and can be ridden fast or slow, on the ground or in the air. There is nothing that compares at Tokai yet, but there should be, IMO.

 

I believe we have a chance to make Tokai a premium bike destination for all kinds of riders but for that we have to be united and work together. I think we are well on our way to get that right now.

 

Tim

[Hairy]

For somebody that doesn't know him personally the following remarks taken from the first few pages here could just be taken as a little insulting and malicious -

 

we could, and should, be seeing much better trail. Instead we have clumsy, awkward, poorly planned and designed crap

we want premium trails back in Tokai, not the amateurish stuff we have seen haphazardly spreading across the mountain

Hopefully the members elected to the new Tokai MTB committee will be experienced,knowledgeable riders and be respected in the local MTB community" I feel strongly that that's not what we have presently

 

It was hardly designed to win friends now was it?

 

The word crap was not the best choice of words I would say, but the remainder is his opinion and based on his experiences with the trail and other trails and I do not see it as being insulting or malicious.

 

Why can't his views be expressed?

[Headshot]

For somebody that doesn't know him personally the following remarks taken from the first few pages here could just be taken as a little insulting and malicious -

 

we could, and should, be seeing much better trail. Instead we have clumsy, awkward, poorly planned and designed crap

we want premium trails back in Tokai, not the amateurish stuff we have seen haphazardly spreading across the mountain

Hopefully the members elected to the new Tokai MTB committee will be experienced,knowledgeable riders and be respected in the local MTB community" I feel strongly that that's not what we have presently

 

It was hardly designed to win friends now was it?

 

No, but its bluntly honest.

[marko35s]

No, but its bluntly honest.

So the only way to get a point across is by insulting somebody?

There are so many ways this could have been done better.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

As a similarly concerned Tokai mtbe'r I also don't doubt that the intentions of Deon, Myles and all the hard working volunteers have been good, but that does not mean what has been built thus far is up to scratch. When jumps start appearing at the top of rises or virtually in corners and massive berms are built where smaller could be better, we have to start asking why. And why also, as Mayhem stated earlier, if the new Snake trails were meant to be temporary until the burn happens, has so much effort gone into building berms and features, where perhaps money and time could have been better spent maintaining existing trails and leaving the snakes for a serious professional build after the fire?

 

 

I believe we have a chance to make Tokai a premium bike destination for all kinds of riders but for that we have to be united and work together. I think we are well on our way to get that right now.

 

Tim

 

Yo Tim,

 

unfortunately when it comes to the bit in Bold - it's pretty much a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If the lines had just been there without any sort of form to them, or without any sort of additional features then there would have been even more uproar. And we couldn't have left them closed - that would have left the pressure fiirmly on the DH trails. Which isn't great at all.

 

As for the "chance to make Tokai great" - yeah, sure - but that was always on the cards once the EMP and trail rationalisation had been completed. And I think that's where everyone is getting so upset, 'cos we have no control over that process, and until that is completed we have to make do with what we have - a set of trails that (may be) of average quality (yet approved by the main detractors) and are at best a temporary measure.

 

At the end, we all want great trails in Tokai. Nobody can dispute that (and if they do I'll be first in line to show them exactly what's been happening behind the scenes and what we have for inspiration, who we have on board for future projects and so on)

 

But this whole process was going to happen anyway. That the whole thing was "forced" due to the action of a few "interested parties" is to completely ignore any and all work that Deon has done behind the scenes with Parks, stakeholders, professional trail builders, fun raisers and so on. And if that is being called into doubt, would you not yourself be insulted, and have the same attitude that Deon has at the moment?

 

EDIT: Spelling and omission of trail rationalisation...

Edited February 4, 2014 by cpt armpies mayhem

[jimmy hardtail]

I wanna be a fun raiser!

[Flowta]

I wanna be a fun raiser!

 

Every Saturday night!!!!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I wanna be a fun raiser!

 

I left that typo in there purposefully. It IS true after all. Funds = fun... More money for trails. More money for consultations with proper builders for the big (non maintenance) stuff.

 

Fun Raisers...

[Pappa Bear]

This is how it should have been done..........

 

" Hi Guys, Deon has worked his ass off for the last 3 years in Tokai. It seems he is struggeling with some of the trails, flow, buildt etc. Lets help by, getting the MTB club goin and support Deon with a more organized system. This way we can get better, more and maintained trails in Tokai. Going forward we would need our first AGM during which we can plan and strategize. Deon would be very valuable in such a club since he knows the procedures to follow with SANPARKS etc.........."

 

...........and if you don't agree you should not serve on a comittee that invloves working with people.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Pappa Bear

[(Deon)]

Do you understand Hairy that the trail is not up to standard after 11 days paid labour and 4 volunteer days in the summer. I was being bashed in the first week of the trail being opened. I.e. lifting branches because "it had no flow" 1 week!

 

Torrential downpours have broken a lot that we have built, washed out massive sections of trail, we've lost the ±100m3 clay destined for the sand corners and sandy sections, all carted off Cecelia forest Jeeptrack for the pine clearing activities, only to have him say that what is standing there now while we wait for rationalisation to be completed, is CRAP!

 

No bud. There is something wrong with that sentiment. He has not once come to me to discuss. I had to find out in a high level meeting that he is now the "volunteer expert" who came to give his version of what happens at volunteer days and how we should be spending what small budget we have with professionals. This makes absolutely no business sense?! If we have no commitment that there will be a trail where we pump all our money, who is going to invest in Tokai in the future when/if we are instructed to close the track and rehab the area Exapmple: there is too much water.

 

Instead I am spending 1/3 of what a professional will cost to maintain the trails across the mountain, keeping the wheels turning and restoring the severe damage Tokai has sustained over years.. because there has not been a dedicated maintenance crew or large budgets. I have since with everyone's blessing employed 5 guys who now are all sitting at home without any money to support their families, why? Because of a childish moratorium against what a few people think is crap! Tokai is suffering because of difference in opinion, not in fact!

 

Dude, I am angry!! But I have kept my decorum throughout.. now I'm being told that he has an opinion but I should not. Fair?

 

I want to meet these guys half way, we'll talk about this at the meeting but so all here know... I had to get commitment from Parks that we could rebuild the Snake trail sustainably, low-key and without major investment to get riders off the DH as soon as possible, and also because it is 50% of our trails. I have achieved that.

 

If we need to pay Bennett now to install few features that I, or the volunteers could do (and we can with the right conditions) then so be it. Bennett knows he is the guy for Tokai.. he is patiently waiting for the process to conclude but he is puzzled by why we need to invest high level budget for something insecure. I will get the money to make everyone happy but I cannot support the call for massive spending.. that makes no sense!

 

Ed: typo

Edited February 4, 2014 by Pain or shine

[Hairy]

This is how it should have been done..........

 

" Hi Guys, Deon has worked his ass off for the last 3 years in Tokai. It seems he is struggeling with some of the trails, flow, buildt etc. Lets help by, getting the MTB club goin and support Deon with a more organized system. This way we can get better, more and maintained trails in Tokai. Going forward we would need our first AGM during which we can plan and strategize. Deon would be very valuable in such a club since he knows the procedures to follow with SANPARKS etc.........."

 

...........and if you don't agree you should not serve on a comittee that invloves working with people.

Nah ... to PC