Sani Pass to be tarred

[Karooryder]

Rubbish. I'm in that area a lot of the time. The Sani Pass Hotel is a client of ours. The pass as it stands right now is a serious hazard when it rains, or worse, when it snows. Unroadworthy vehicles are going up there every day in long lines - I'm talking about all the taxies as an example. The only thing that prevents them coming down is the couple of times a year when the pass is snowed in. Otherwise those taxis fly down there no matter what the conditions.

 

I've personally been on that mountain when it's been snowed in, and watched villagers who live at the top being dumped out of the taxis halfway up, with all their luggage and made to walk through the snow and sludge. I spent an afternoon once helping an old gogo drag her suitcases up to the top. Took hours and I was fit. She would never have made it. Not to mention how difficult it is for them to access basic services like healthcare, or just to buy food from supermarket.

 

And dirt roads take far more effort to maintain and keep open than tar roads. That's why people invented tar roads FFS. Do you know how much time, effort and money it takes to keep that dirt road open for general traffic? It is far more expensive to maintain a dirt road than it does to maintain a tar road.

 

Next, go look at all the major Lesotho passes that have been tarred over the years. Mafika Lisiu pass, Butha-Buthe pass, etc. They're in excellent condition and have transformed the lives of the people in the area. And when it's raining or snowing, they remain open for longer and are exponentially safer.

 

This is not a 4x4 track. It's a national road. It is not for the exclusive use of a few wealthy outsiders who own 4x4s but don't know how to use them and therefore think that this is supposed to be a 4x4 track. It is a critical regional artery that links two countries. The locals have been desperate to get the pass sorted out once and for all, and to make it a safe place to go. Only outsiders and local tour operators want to hold it back.

 

The travesty is not that people want to tar it now - it's that it wasn't done a long time ago.

 

Great response...couldn't have said it better.

[Stretch]

Otherwise those taxis fly down there no matter what the conditions.

and wait and see how dangerous it will be with broken up tar and iced up tar

 

And dirt roads take far more effort to maintain and keep open than tar roads.

WHAT! a dirt road that is being used regularly need to be regraded every couple of years - realistically in this province we do it at best every 5 years. It is a fairly routine process. Maintaining a tar road is a continuous exercise and when one is subject to harsh weather conditions it requires even more maintenance. DOT in kzn does not have nearly enough equipment to maintain the existing roads, now we going to add a new expensive one that requires intensive maintenance

 

Next, go look at all the major Lesotho passes that have been tarred over the years. Mafika Lisiu pass, Butha-Buthe pass, etc. They're in excellent condition and have transformed the lives of the people in the area.

and look at how much of lesotho is run and aided by foreign currency (mainly chinese). ALL infrastructure in Lesotho is maintained and operated by foreign aid, foreign labour. It has been a while since I have been in Lesotho, but the roads then were barely being maintained...so I can't comment about their current state

 

 

I think you are honestly underestimating the major expense that will be incurred to keep this road tarred. And what is the benefit? for easy access into South Africa for the largely rural part of lesotho? when there are three or four other easily accessible entry points into and out of lesotho? I still consider it to be a wasted expense and it has nothing to do with hubbba bubba about enriching peoples lives.

 

Providing an access road that will benefit few makes no economic sense. It is the same as water and electrictiy provision in this country. Promising to give every person water and electricity on tap is not economically viable due to the disparate nature of the way our population lives. same goes for access roads

[dirtrider]

Rubbish. I'm in that area a lot of the time. The Sani Pass Hotel is a client of ours. The pass as it stands right now is a serious hazard when it rains, or worse, when it snows. Unroadworthy vehicles are going up there every day in long lines - I'm talking about all the taxies as an example. The only thing that prevents them coming down is the couple of times a year when the pass is snowed in. Otherwise those taxis fly down there no matter what the conditions.

 

I've personally been on that mountain when it's been snowed in, and watched villagers who live at the top being dumped out of the taxis halfway up, with all their luggage and made to walk through the snow and sludge. I spent an afternoon once helping an old gogo drag her suitcases up to the top. Took hours and I was fit. She would never have made it. Not to mention how difficult it is for them to access basic services like healthcare, or just to buy food from supermarket.

 

And dirt roads take far more effort to maintain and keep open than tar roads. That's why people invented tar roads FFS. Do you know how much time, effort and money it takes to keep that dirt road open for general traffic? It is far more expensive to maintain a dirt road than it does to maintain a tar road.

 

Next, go look at all the major Lesotho passes that have been tarred over the years. Mafika Lisiu pass, Butha-Buthe pass, etc. They're in excellent condition and have transformed the lives of the people in the area. And when it's raining or snowing, they remain open for longer and are exponentially safer.

 

This is not a 4x4 track. It's a national road. It is not for the exclusive use of a few wealthy outsiders who own 4x4s but don't know how to use them and therefore think that this is supposed to be a 4x4 track. It is a critical regional artery that links two countries. The locals have been desperate to get the pass sorted out once and for all, and to make it a safe place to go. Only outsiders and local tour operators want to hold it back.

 

The travesty is not that people want to tar it now - it's that it wasn't done a long time ago.

 

And after all this it will still not happen . First of all the 800mil will go into somebodies bank account and the other 8mil will be used to build the road . The tar road will be more dangerous than a dirt road because they will not do a proper job of it , thankfully I will still be able to drive up there with my very expensive 4x4 towing my very expensive off-road caravan looking at the poor people trying to drive in the rain with their cheap little cars .

[blondeonabike]

so eloquent

I think he just making up posts to hit 10 000 today. well done dips

[tombeej]

I work in a forest at the end of a 4km dirt road. It is well used and includes a lot of truck traffic, very similar to what the road on the pass has to handle. The road has to be graded regularly - every few weeks. I'm backwards and forwards on that road every day and I know the owner of the road who's task it is to try and maintain it. Dirt roads degrade incredibly quickly. It is completely false to say they need to be graded every 5 years. The same has to be done for Sani pass. Not to mention the fact that dirt roads become like soap in bad weather. They are deadly. Like I've said, tar roads are exponentially safer. Surely we can agree on that simple idea? A well built tar road will go for decades before it needs to be fully resurfaced. But prompt and effective road maintenance is what is crucial to it's longevity, and that is where the discussion should be.

 

The real safety/cost issue here is not whether tar is better than dirt for Sani pass (because any reasonably minded person would instantly know the answer to that). It should be a moot point. The real issue is how well the road is maintained once it has been tarred. And that's a whole other discussion for the future.

[DIPSLICK]

I think he just making up posts to hit 10 000 today. well done dips

ITS MISTAKE,, I TUNE YOU I SOOORY :blush: :blush:

 

DIDNT CHECK THE POST COUNT ONLY TROLS MAKE 10K :whistling:

 

and people who post our awesome pics,,,,,,I CANT POST A PIC

[Stretch]

I work in a forest at the end of a 4km dirt road. It is well used and includes a lot of truck traffic, very similar to what the road on the pass has to handle.

a commercial forest? a commercial forest dirt road is a very different kettle of fish to a district road. The subsurface layers is usually not as thick and they are hammered daily with heavy machinery and heavy loads compared with a district road

 

Surely we can agree on that simple idea? A well built tar road will go for decades before it needs to be fully resurfaced. But prompt and effective road maintenance is what is crucial to it's longevity, and that is where the discussion should be.

Yes, and we are sitting with blinkers over our eyes if we think that prompt and effective road maintenance will happen. I travel all over this province and I see the state our roads are in first hand from mkuze to kokstad, if these simple accessible roads are not maintained then there is no way in hell that the tar on sani pass will be maintained. sorry

 

The real safety/cost issue here is not whether tar is better than dirt for Sani pass (because any reasonably minded person would instantly know the answer to that).The real issue is how well the road is maintained once it has been tarred. And that's a whole other discussion for the future

 

100%..and based upon current evidence of the maintenance of our roads and discussions I have had with the managing engineers at DOT this is never going to happen properly and effectively and therefore the best thing for the sani pass will be to keep it dirt and spend a fraction of that money strengthening the subsurface layer and regrading and gravelling the top layer but keeping it dirt

[Brian Fantana]

Not to mention the fact that dirt roads become like soap in bad weather. They are deadly. Like I've said, tar roads are exponentially safer.simple

 

In most cases tar roads are safer. However in certain conditions where snow melts, and freeze again when it gets cold again, black ice forms on the road.

 

I will much rather travel on a bad gravel road, than travel on an iced tar road.

 

Monteng pass on the Fouriesburg side of Lesotho is closed regularly due to ice on the road. So a tar road is not a solution to all the access problems.

[Tumbleweed]

Slightly off-topic…what European climb would this be comparable to?

[DIPSLICK]

This is not a 4x4 track. It's a national road. It is not for the exclusive use of a few wealthy outsiders who own 4x4s but don't know how to use them and therefore think that this is supposed to be a 4x4 track

 

 

ONE OR TWO ISSUES YOU CLEARLY NEED TO WORK THROUGH,

IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN TO THE PUB AT THE TOP YOU WILL SEE FOR THE LONGEST TIME IT HAS BEEN A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO GO AND "TEST" and enjoy their vehicles, when we were there there were all walks of life in all sort of cars just experiencing go up sani zero visability having a beer at the top some food, looking at all the photos who have been before, from old mercedes trucks to modern day 4x4 taxi industry that make their scraps riding up and down,

[blondeonabike]

ITS MISTAKE,, I TUNE YOU I SOOORY :blush: :blush:

 

DIDNT CHECK THE POST COUNT ONLY TROLS MAKE 10K :whistling:

 

and people who post our awesome pics,,,,,,I CANT POST A PIC

lets see your legs...I wanna see if you really do ride a bike or sit on the hub all day????

[Stretch]

In most cases tar roads are safer. However in certain conditions where snow melts, and freeze again when it gets cold again, black ice forms on the road.

 

I will much rather travel on a bad gravel road, than travel on an iced tar road.

 

Monteng pass on the Fouriesburg side of Lesotho is closed regularly due to ice on the road. So a tar road is not a solution to all the access problems.

 

agreed - this is the point I am trying to make

[DIPSLICK]

lets see your legs...I wanna see if you really do ride a bike or sit on the hub all day????

been off the bike since september, blown PCL legs were never anything to look at anyway,

[DIPSLICK]

double post sorry

[Karooryder]

This is not a 4x4 track. It's a national road. It is not for the exclusive use of a few wealthy outsiders who own 4x4s but don't know how to use them and therefore think that this is supposed to be a 4x4 track

 

 

ONE OR TWO ISSUES YOU CLEARLY NEED TO WORK THROUGH,

IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN TO THE PUB AT THE TOP YOU WILL SEE FOR THE LONGEST TIME IT HAS BEEN A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO GO AND "TEST" and enjoy their vehicles, when we were there there were all walks of life in all sort of cars just experiencing go up sani zero visability having a beer at the top some food, looking at all the photos who have been before, from old mercedes trucks to modern day 4x4 taxi industry that make their scraps riding up and down,

 

You're missing the point.

 

As stated in his posts, tombeej works in this area and has first-hand experience of Sani Pass as a main regional access route for locals, that is on top of Sani Pass as an adventure route. Cognisant of his informed opinions, what would the issues be that he needs to "work through"?

[I FLY]

 

We had a stunning weather for our "bucket list" ride.