Do you know what you are covered for / Cyclesure?

[GrantRH]

Not sure if Nick will be back. Hopefully he will, after Hollard and Cyclesure have updated their policy and can share the good news with us. Then we can spread the news and everyone wins. I will be the first to promote them if it turns out that they listen to their customers and take the recommendations on board.

[Oxter]

household content.......mmm...we are having an increasing number cases of electrical surges being sent through the network in our area. This is a result of people stealing the thick copper wire that acts as an earth in the substation. Net result..peoples tv's/decoders/cellphones/laptops/computers/microwaves/fridges etc etc are getting fried...now ask yourself...for the small amount you pay for household insurance, is it worth not paying or would you rather fork out 40, 50, 60k to replace all those items...i'll pay the household thank you

 

and I know already three people that have had their electronic equipment fried. We are not talking a quick surge either...we are talking about constant surge causing chargers to catch fire and plugs to get spat out of their sockets

 

no amount of locks or security measures will prevent that

 

as for a bike...well if its 20k...you may get away with not insuring it...but what if its 30, 40 100k....

 

20K is alot to me at this stage of the game, and if my bike gets stolen i will/can not replace it as soon as i would like. So thats why i insure my bike, coz cannot imagine life without it (okay thats a bit over the top and wanted to create some drama, but would be sad every day and the gf will pay the price lol) And thats why i insure my bike!!!

 

Edit:

Nick all of this sounds like BS from an insurance company. thank you for clarifying the hijacking scenario, but what about the other points the hubbers made. What are these merrits you have to consider in the case of the bike standing outside in a yard after being washed. I live in a complex and thus is access controlled with two security gaurds at all times? What else do you have to consider to be able to give us a yes or no answer? Height of walls within complex is not very high, i have neighbours all around me, live more or less in centre of complex...please share

[Barend de Arend]

I'm honestly not trying to fudge you, that's not the Hollard way. However, I'm still not comfortable with commenting on hypothetical situations. Some people might take "we will consider each set of facts on its merits" a different way to how I intend it, but in reality each scenario really is quite different to another, even if the same principles apply.

 

The only way I can question my broker to ask if I'm fully covered is with hypothetical questions. I buy insurance before I need it.

[Vangar]

The only way I can question my broker to ask if I'm fully covered is with hypothetical questions. I buy insurance before I need it.

hypothesishʌɪˈpɒθɪsɪs/noun

• 
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  We got a runaround and questions not answered. Busy looking at other insurers now. If there is one thing I hate it's evasive answers. Just be straight and cut the bull**** or marketing speak.
  
   
  

[DJuice]

Just cancelled my policy. The change in the contract was not sufficient for me.

[TALUS]

I am now self insured from 2h ago. It is clear that I am not covered for what I need (I think - nothing is actually clear).

[rouxtjie]

Big wheel keep on turning...proud mary keep on burnin....

 

I love CCR

[BarHugger]

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b59217eee079ee582bf5f2d3b389d3c7/tumblr_mwql9u3Yeu1qlh1s6o1_250.gif

[JJDT]

There were only two good things of this saga 1. Carpet's claim is now finally under review (whatever this means in their terms) 2. Clarification on the hijacking clause.

 

The rest running around in circles. According to Nick cyclesure is the experts and that are just the partner but never has the "experts" state their case.

Nick you will never be good a firefighting this thread indicated it as such...stay with marketing

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b59217eee079ee582bf5f2d3b389d3c7/tumblr_mwql9u3Yeu1qlh1s6o1_250.gif

 

Such an awesome GIF

[Hollard]

Hello again Hubbers.

 

I thought I would sign off from this thread with a few final points. Caution: Wall of text ahead.

1. Cyclesure and Hollard have heard you loud and clear – while we are all relieved that things have turned out well for Carpet, we are really sorry that she had such a poor experience. We are also sorry that some of you believe that this has been some kind of a “spin” exercise – we can only assure you that we always try to engage openly and honestly (and I can tell you that I am a real person ).
    
   
2. While we believe that the Cyclesure policy and terms and conditions are market competitive, we have kicked off a project to re-examine our policy specifically in the light of many of the comments made in this forum. We will let you know when this is completed – hopefully we’ll come up with something which makes you want to move all of your insurance to us.
    
   
3. There seems to be some confusion as to the implications and processes associated with ex gratia claims and some concern over our reluctance to discuss specific circumstances. These two ideas are related in the following way:
    
   a. An ex gratia claim is considered where the terms of the policy have not been met, but the overall circumstances of the claim mean that a failure to pay would be inequitable or unfair to the insured. As correctly observed by some members of this forum the reason a claim is paid “ex gratia” is because it means that no precedent is set. This is to protect us as insurers (and ultimately other policyholders who would otherwise pay higher premiums) against less honest policyholders (non-Hubbers) who might be tempted to leave a slightly damaged older bicycle in easy sight and grasping distance so that they can use the insurance payout for a deposit on a new one.
    
   b. Technically speaking, a claim is rejected and then an ex gratia payment is made. However, the decisions are completely related, made at the same time and come from the same insurance funds. From the insured’s perspective, the experience is the same as if the claim had been paid.
    
   c. The reason that we have been reluctant to comment on hypothetical scenarios is that every case is evaluated on its own merits and the degree to which those individual circumstances can be described is limited by our imagination and penmanship. To illustrate my point with a specific scenario described in this forum – you clean your bike, leave it unsecured in the garden and come back from your shower to find it gone. What is not in question is that as our wording currently stands (to prevent us from being exploited by unscrupulous non-Hubbers as explained above) your claim should be rejected because you have failed to take the precautions required in terms of the policy. However, when looking at if an ex gratia payment should be made, we look at things like: could we reasonably have expected you to secure the bike between arriving home and showering? Would a reasonable person have believed that the bike was secure in your garden? How many bikes have you lost over the last 3 months? And so on, and so on.
   

​To be honest, the only real point we can make here is that we are, through legislation and through the office of the Ombudsman, subject to a very high standard of fairness. It is by far the exception that we decline a claim and within that small percentage of rejected claims another small percentage become Ombudsman complaints (less than 2 per 1,000 claims).

 

Like I've said before, we'll still be around here, but I'd appreciate it if you start a new thread with any new questions that relate to YOU, and not Carpet. You are free to contact us any way you want to. In addition to the channels I've mentioned before you can come see us or call me/us if you want to too. I'm happy to help you with giving you info on the most effective ways to get our, or any of our partners, attention (I'm not asking you to NOT do anything, do whatever you feel is necessary, but I believe that working together to an extent we can get more done and get it done faster). Maybe you guys can convince me to get back on my bike again, it's been a while.

 

Have a great weekend, and stay safe. I'll update you on re-examining the policy as soon as I can.

[Rata Del Spruit]

Hub's a funny place.

 

A member posts an apology for acting like a chop, response: "It takes a brave person to apologise! Clap, clap!"

A company posts an apology and fixes the situation, response: "BURN THE WITCH!"

 

I personally think the explanation above is genuine. Maybe Carpet can confirm whether or not her claim was actually rejected or she was merely told it met the requirements of a claim that could be rejected. If it was the latter then I think CycleSure didn't communicate the ex-gratia possibility clearly to her (and why haven't they made an appearance here?) but I don't think anyone can fault Hollard for both paying out and taking the time to communicate how the process works on this thread.

[rouxtjie]

Good response @hollard, and thank you for the time you took to make an appearance here.

 

Also good on you for sorting carpet out.

 

I will be honest and say that your product doesn't suite me at the moment. Hopefully you would have gained insight into our needs through this thread, hell if I was your product development manager I would print every page of this thread and go through it post by post. I will give him a headstart....the general theme is

 

Premium isn't as important as cover...good communication and clear schedules

[Bobbo_SA]

 

b. Technically speaking, a claim is rejected and then an ex gratia payment is made. However, the decisions are completely related, made at the same time and come from the same insurance funds. From the insured’s perspective, the experience is the same as if the claim had been paid.

 

 

So, the fact that the claim is rejected will still reflect on the insured's records, and could in fact impact any future insurance policies?

[Rata Del Spruit]

 

So, the fact that the claim is rejected will still reflect on the insured's records, and could in fact impact any future insurance policies?

 

Interested in this too.

[Vangar]

Hub's a funny place.

 

A member posts an apology for acting like a chop, response: "It takes a brave person to apologise! Clap, clap!"

A company posts an apology and fixes the situation, response: "BURN THE WITCH!"

 

I personally think the explanation above is genuine. Maybe Carpet can confirm whether or not her claim was actually rejected or she was merely told it met the requirements of a claim that could be rejected. If it was the latter then I think CycleSure didn't communicate the ex-gratia possibility clearly to her (and why haven't they made an appearance here?) but I don't think anyone can fault Hollard for both paying out and taking the time to communicate how the process works on this thread.

 

True I suppose. Kudos to Hollard for resolving the situation, cyclesure didn't even say one word......not cool. Demerit points for the hypothetical situation argument when asking a straight question. I for one would rather pay R500 a month and not ever have to worry about where my bike is in my own yard, than pay R250 and know no payout if no forced entry, I expect All Risk to mean ALL RISK. So yeah. Like rouxtjie said:

Premium isn't as important as cover...good communication and clear schedules