porqui Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Goose - Brian Lopes on pg 90 says "High speeds require it" and not "It requires high speed" Fabian46 you have been countersteering all your life every time you intentionally turned a corner whether on a motorbike or on a bicycle you just don't realise it - period! RockCoach, Fabian46 and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3
RockCoach Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 To turn a bike at ANY speed you HAVE to countersteer - you might not even realise it and that is on any surface.It has to do with changing your CG. If you want to turn left you steer to the right to shift your CG to the left side of your bike - the moment that happens you steer to the left so as bring the bike in underneath you again but you control by how much so as to keep a curve as soon as you want to straighten out you turn an extra little bit to the left so as to get the bike under your CG and all is centred. Have you ever worked out why you cannot keep your bike on the yellow line on the road - it's because you are always "falling" and you have to correct your CG all the time by bringing the bike in underneath you.In a corner you are "falling" all the time but you control the rate at which you are falling.To change your CG it is best to ride the bike out from underneath you but you correct again at a rate. "Going to get SHOT for this but double flame suite on!" I wanted to include C of G but was trying not to overcomplicate it. Don't know if it worked. Maybe this will help the motorbikers...The relative difference in mass between bicycle and rider compared to motor bike and rider means that the C of G position changes much more on a bicycle. Thus counter steering and balance over the motorbike is different. Fabian46 and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2
Fabian46 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Goose - Brian Lopes on pg 90 says "High speeds require it" and not "It requires high speed" Fabian46 you have been countersteering all your life every time you intentionally turned a corner whether on a motorbike or on a bicycle you just don't realise it - period! I know and understand that.
marko35s Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Take some time to read what I said. I said there is no "NEED" to countersteer. What would be the purpose of counter steering at walking speed? Dont depend on other people to make your point. So i dont have to go to Sliicks post to address something you said. What "you" are saying is nonsensical. Of course you can apply countersteering methods at any speed....but its not necessary. Do you understand that? And let me explain another thing to you. In motorcycle racing, they dont have to try and counter steer, because the technique of leading into the corner with the shoulder and looking through the corner changes the position of shoulders, directly affecting the input on your bars = countersteer. Dont mistake countersteering with weight shifting.Did you by any chance go to the Basil Fawlty school of management? Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
porqui Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I wanted to include C of G but was trying not to overcomplicate it. Don't know if it worked. Maybe this will help the motorbikers...The relative difference in mass between bicycle and rider compared to motor bike and rider means that the C of G position changes much more on a bicycle. Thus counter steering and balance over the motorbike is different. It is no different on a motorbike it is just not as pronounced.The only difference is the source of power the rest is all the same. Edited June 25, 2014 by porqui Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Dont depend on other people to make your point. Sorry, what!? So if someone says it better than me, I still have to say it myself or its not admissible? So if trying to prove something I can't reference someone else's text? Thats just another level of dumb. as for the rest. I don't have time to respond in full, but I never said it was necessary. Never said you had to. All I said was that it is possible to see the effects of counter steering in a bicycle scenario by doing that experiment in a parking lot situation, and in a greater sense referencing moto for the benefits of counter steering in the moto environment - faster turn in, harder turning abilities and so on (just a que here - you can see their unput on the bars mid corner) I was JUST referencing the input on the bars. I know the entire movement on any bike has a lot more to it than just input onto the bars, but I was isolating that in relation to a bicycle. I would post more, but I'm off to a meeting. bottom line - counter steering IS possible on an mtb or bicycle at low speeds. You can see the effects of it in the parking lot test as described above. It DOES shorten the EFFECTIVE wheelbase when you counter steer. This in turn places more weight over the front of the bike, steepens the EFFECTIVE head angle and allows you to turn in faster or turn harder. All the other things (weight distribution on the bike, braking and so on) are left out for the purposes of this example. They will affect the overall equation when turning and counter steering in a real life cornering situation, but that does not detract from the assertion shown above.
Eldron Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Damn! Gone are the days of swinging dicks at each other - we've moved to textbooks and tablets NERD! Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, nathrix and deanbean 3
RockCoach Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It is no different on a motorbike it is just not as pronounced.The only difference is the source of power the rest is all the same. More pronounced is what I meant by different - because of the mass of bike.
Fabian46 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Did you by any chance go to the Basil Fawlty school of management? hahaha....i think this has discussion gone too far! Edited June 25, 2014 by Fabian46
Fabian46 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Sorry, what!? So if someone says it better than me, I still have to say it myself or its not admissible? So if trying to prove something I can't reference someone else's text? Thats just another level of dumb. as for the rest. I don't have time to respond in full, but I never said it was necessary. Never said you had to. All I said was that it is possible to see the effects of counter steering in a bicycle scenario by doing that experiment in a parking lot situation, and in a greater sense referencing moto for the benefits of counter steering in the moto environment - faster turn in, harder turning abilities and so on (just a que here - you can see their unput on the bars mid corner) I was JUST referencing the input on the bars. I know the entire movement on any bike has a lot more to it than just input onto the bars, but I was isolating that in relation to a bicycle. I would post more, but I'm off to a meeting. bottom line - counter steering IS possible on an mtb or bicycle at low speeds. You can see the effects of it in the parking lot test as described above. It DOES shorten the EFFECTIVE wheelbase when you counter steer. This in turn places more weight over the front of the bike, steepens the EFFECTIVE head angle and allows you to turn in faster or turn harder. All the other things (weight distribution on the bike, braking and so on) are left out for the purposes of this example. They will affect the overall equation when turning and counter steering in a real life cornering situation, but that does not detract from the assertion shown above. yeah sure
GoLefty!! Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 this thread has become useless without video's and pitchers
Eldron Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 26, 650B and 29er wheels so we all know what wheel size to bash :-)
Eldron Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 which one is better If you read thehub you should already know that they all suck
banna Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Damn! Gone are the days of swinging dicks at each other - we've moved to textbooks and tablets NERD!Well it's probably a lot more hygienic in any event. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
Fabian46 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 If you read thehub you should already know that they all suck You're so "Enduro"
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