DJR Posted November 1, 2014 Share I would like to see SANParks or Pedal Power go public on this - it could end up in an interesting court case. (Not that it would be a bad thing for some of the Argus revenues to go to looking after the mountain but those funds are more likely to end up being spent in Pretoria.)Firstly, openness re. the money is critical to establish trust. Knowing what happens to my money, is what makes it possible for me to make an informed choice whether to spend it or not. If I know 50 % goes back to Table Mountain conservation, 25 % to other National parks and 25 % to funding cycling improvements and maintenance, I might be happy. On the other hand, if it looks like all of it goes into a black hole of bad administration, it feels just like another tax, and that I hate. The rationale behind the reason we, as cyclists, have to pay, is after all to repair the "damage" we cause on the mountain, as opposed to hikers, who pay nothing. Show me that you use my money to off set the negative impact of my cycling, and I'll be less grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted November 1, 2014 Share I haven't been to Tokai for quite a while now, cos I ride more closer to home, but I have been personally involved with three government depts trying to get a private initiative through in order to earn a living. It has been a very slow, tedious, one step forward, 3 sideways, 2 back process. But I have found the people themselves to be extremely helpful- it just takes a looong time. If the people like the Sandra lady are genuinely keen to help, please be patient, as much as a pain in the arse it is. If the price is too high, people will not come, and they will need to amend it. If they DON'T care, sorry, but I don't see them ever caring and no amount of screaming will help. Good luck to those acting on our behalf!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted November 1, 2014 Share It's like coming up for breath, thanks Thor. A few understand the value of getting to the end of what is an expensive and slow process. We definitely have the support of regional officials and even the planning department who have seen the value of the process currently running. It's been said near the start of the thread, let's get their take on the day rate before stamping our feet. With their info in hand we can dissect what they say and how they are justifying the increase.. does anyone still believe in formulating an argument?? Until then, the thread will just break something, I can see it going that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted November 1, 2014 Share Not if there are conditions attached to the fees they are demanding. If, for example, CTCT demands that the amount that they are paying across goes in to managed MTB projects / activities on the mountain, for example, then it would be a good thing for us. You'd be surprised to know who is trying to allocate the money to improving MTB facilities.. certainly in this thread, many would be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted November 1, 2014 Share It's like coming up for breath, thanks Thor. A few understand the value of getting to the end of what is an expensive and slow process. We definitely have the support of regional officials and even the planning department who have seen the value of the process currently running. It's been said near the start of the thread, let's get their take on the day rate before stamping our feet. With their info in hand we can dissect what they say and how they are justifying the increase.. does anyone still believe in formulating an argument?? Until then, the thread will just break something, I can see it going that way.Conversely, though, Deon, do they have any numbers of paying visitors anywhere? One thing you do need to try do is get facts to support the impact of the price hikes. Either way - whether people pay it as before, or whether numbers have reduced dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted November 1, 2014 Share You'd be surprised to know who is trying to allocate the money to improving MTB facilities.. certainly in this thread, many would be surprised. It's the lack of info, or half info, that gets people riled up. Trust me, I have hundreds of interested parties in my venture and I've learnt the hard way. Rather say nothing or release conclusive statements to all. Bit of a 'my own receding hairline' advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosebay Posted November 1, 2014 Share It's the lack of info, or half info, that gets people riled up. Trust me, I have hundreds of interested parties in my venture and I've learnt the hard way. Rather say nothing or release conclusive statements to all. Bit of a 'my own receding hairline' advice! Yea yea, well said I think a number of people number of people interested in the Tokai developments have been around the block a bit, and also really want the best for an area that caters for a vast number of people, whether cyclists, walkers or whatever, rich and poor. Transparency is really the way to go - and will be unlikely from the bureaucrats. So let those who can be transparent be transparent, and allow the cyclist to make an informed decision. So what if it might compromise the process a bit here and there - taking offence is not a mature response anyway - in the long term it brings a more solid and lasting solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted November 1, 2014 Share It's the lack of info, or half info, that gets people riled up. Trust me, I have hundreds of interested parties in my venture and I've learnt the hard way. Rather say nothing or release conclusive statements to all. Bit of a 'my own receding hairline' advice! Trouble is, I am not at liberty to release the info but I can say that there is a plan around the increase, Rob alluded to it earlier. Actually, I would think he is at liberty to say, but because he didn't, maybe he is not?? We just have to wait for TMNP to answer the questions. I have been asking this of the readers from the start.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted November 1, 2014 Share Trouble is, I am not at liberty to release the info but I can say that there is a plan around the increase, Rob alluded to it earlier. Actually, I would think he is at liberty to say, but because he didn't, maybe he is not?? We just have to wait for TMNP to answer the questions. I have been asking this of the readers from the start.. Same issue I have. Sadly, I released one piece of incredibly happy news about my situation in a friendly chat and it was turned into a totally different context when a grapevine got involved. Eish. Just be careful with the 'you'd be surprised who is supporting us' type comment. Cos if it was Alan Windie or Helen Zille, I wouldn't be surprised cos that's their job. If it was George Pitt or Brad Clooney, I'd be truly surprised, cos I have no idea who they are, and if you knew that a multi-millionaire head of a major corporate was planning to invest a fortune to help you guys, I would be surprised AND delighted! Tell us, tell us!! (My point is that people skim over stuff and take what they want to hear or read, not what you actually meant and that is normally the cause of all the frustration. Don't give ammo. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethebike234 Posted November 2, 2014 Share I've always defended them but jeez that's difficult to defend. The only positive is that kids under twelve are free (hope I haven't jinxed that now).Just got back from a ride there and this no longer applies, guy at the gate told me that entry for children of all ages is same as grown ups - R60.00. This is insane that means that to take the kids for a little ride at tokai will cost R180.00 (3x60.00) NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! I think that they actually just don't want anyone using the mountain. Give them time and it they will start to charge for walking on the mountain...believe me its just a matter of time ...........Seriously Sanparks need to be put in their place or kicked off Table Mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko35s Posted November 2, 2014 Share Just got back from a ride there and this no longer applies, guy at the gate told me that entry for children of all ages is same as grown ups - R60.00. This is insane that means that to take the kids for a little ride at tokai will cost R180.00 (3x60.00) NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! I think that they actually just don't want anyone using the mountain. Give them time and it they will start to charge for walking on the mountain...believe me its just a matter of time ...........Seriously Sanparks need to be put in their place or kicked off Table Mountain.First I have heard of that, went twice over the weekend showed my card and happily sweated my way up the mountain with my youngster. Which I will continue to do until I am told by a parks official, which may be a while because to be brutally honest most of them haven't got a sodding clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted November 3, 2014 Share Just got back from a ride there and this no longer applies, guy at the gate told me that entry for children of all ages is same as grown ups - R60.00. This is insane that means that to take the kids for a little ride at tokai will cost R180.00 (3x60.00) NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! I think that they actually just don't want anyone using the mountain. Give them time and it they will start to charge for walking on the mountain...believe me its just a matter of time ...........Seriously Sanparks need to be put in their place or kicked off Table Mountain. I got wind of this too. I didn't stick around for the implosion so don't know the outcome of the one group with kids, but parents were not happy.. Confusion certainly reigned at the gate on Saturday morning, testament to the lack of communication! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted November 3, 2014 Share Why not at liberty to release info? Rather stay off the forums then. People expect facts, not conjecture and vague claims of developments and funding that are "at a sensitive stage" or some other excuse. Is Tokai MTB going to take the hike in prices up with SANP - if so lets see a copy of the letter on the website. Frankly all I'd like to know is that Tokai MTB has my interests at heart and that letter would be a good start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandui Posted November 3, 2014 Share Just for the record. My theory about why the day permit fee has jumped from R45 to R60 is exactly that, a theory. I am not privy to information that I am withholding or not at liberty to discuss. Unless it is clearly stated in a meeting that information being shared is confidential in nature, I will inform my community of any outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted November 3, 2014 Share Cant we get a group together to take over Tokai or more specifically the hiking/horse mtb Part of it. Kick san parks out and maintain whatever needs to be maintained with takings from the gate! I know its more easier said than done, but surely there must be a way in which a group can take over from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted November 3, 2014 Share Cant we get a group together to take over Tokai or more specifically the hiking/horse mtb Part of it. Kick san parks out and maintain whatever needs to be maintained with takings from the gate! I know its more easier said than done, but surely there must be a way in which a group can take over from themThat's a great idea but sadly I doubt that could even materialize. I imagine we'd have to negotiate some sort of long term lease. Sanparks won't even give that horrible coffee shop a lease longer than a year. Remember it's first and foremost a conservation area. Add to that the various user groups who all want access. And in a lot of cases exclusive access. Us included. Then there's the cost of the lease. As a business Tokai is terrible. You'd have to spend hundreds of thousands upgrading the trails and other infrastructure to the point where it could legitimately compete with the Jonkershoeks of the world. Their revenue collection is abysmal and the culture of non payment/bribing the oke at the gate is so prevalent that people speak openly about it on this forum. Safety is also a huge problem I don't know about you but I'd never get involved in something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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