(Deon) Posted January 2, 2015 Share I think you mean "for the greater good"........ However Wyatt posts a valid question in that if it can be ridden both ways, then people will ride it in the direction it's not intended to be ridden. BTW thats called Human nature and it needs herding usually through making it more unpleasant to attempt a reverse direction traverse. Life is about choices, if you want to kill there is nothing apart from a few words stopping you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Stuart Posted January 2, 2015 Share "It's entirely possible to drive through a red robot"The logic and analogy fails me ................I really don't know how to explain it any simpler to the Darwin Award candidate who wants to ride up SA's Downhill tracks because he has the skillz. Anyway, off to ride. If you are going to be climbing the DH courses today please wear something bright and maybe blow a whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted January 2, 2015 Share Not really. It's entirely possible to drive through a red robot. Just because you can doesn't mean it's up to you to decide whether you should. Rules are there for a reason. In this case, a section of trail has been demarcated for the likely purpose of keeping guys that want to gun it on their downhill rigs off the trails that are being used by other riders thereby avoiding crashes. By his logic, if a trail can be ridden down at break neck speed then why shouldn't Mayhem and Marko ride down them at full tilt? Right, off to hit Thaba. It's a little bit harder than the other tracks to ride up but who knows, maybe Danny Macaskill (or Wyatt SKILLZMASTER Earp) is in town so I'd better be on the lookout.stop, you don't have to, really. He's only here to prove a point from a prior discussion it seems. Earp, if you feel what can be done should be done, then I can't see room for further discussion. You are on your own here bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted January 2, 2015 Share . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted January 2, 2015 Share I really don't know how to explain it any simpler to the Darwin Award candidate who wants to ride up SA's Downhill tracks because he has the skillz. Anyway, off to ride. If you are going to be climbing the DH courses today please wear something bright and maybe blow a whistle.Ian Anderson wrote a song about your type, in actual fact an entire album name is dedicated to it. Nobody mentioned skills , bragged or attention whored around it, neither is this particular trail a well known S.A. downhill track . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted January 2, 2015 Share Geez, I'm out. Hopefully the point was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted January 2, 2015 Share Life is about choices, if you want to kill there is nothing apart from a few words stopping you. Excellent we're on the right track here. Thanks for indulging. Life is about choices and choosing to kill someone is within the ability of all people. South Africa proves this everyday.The method of discouragement is often the determining factor whether people will actually carry out the deed. In SA we have no consequences. There is no death penalty for murder and on a life sentnce you have to serve something like 15% of that to be elligable to early release. Onto MTBer's.... which hopefully is not considered to be in the same category as murdering people (although if you read NEWS24 you have to wonder).. MTber's are people who seek challenge. If you didn't like a challenge then you'd buy season tickets to the stormers games. present an MTBer with a challenge and they will question the rules, probably also will be willing to break the rules to accept and take on that challenge. So if we accept and understand this to be the psyche then the next tool is discouragement. How do you discourage people fro breaking rules or make it incredibly difficult for them to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Stuart Posted January 2, 2015 Share Excellent we're on the right track here. Thanks for indulging. Life is about choices and choosing to kill someone is within the ability of all people. South Africa proves this everyday.The method of discouragement is often the determining factor whether people will actually carry out the deed. In SA we have no consequences. There is no death penalty for murder and on a life sentnce you have to serve something like 15% of that to be elligable to early release. Onto MTBer's.... which hopefully is not considered to be in the same category as murdering people (although if you read NEWS24 you have to wonder).. MTber's are people who seek challenge. If you didn't like a challenge then you'd buy season tickets to the stormers games. present an MTBer with a challenge and they will question the rules, probably also will be willing to break the rules to accept and take on that challenge. So if we accept and understand this to be the psyche then the next tool is discouragement. How do you discourage people fro breaking rules or make it incredibly difficult for them to do so?I'll engage you since you're clearly more open to logical discussion and Wyatt Earp is now trolling in stereo. My red light analogy served a purpose. Safety requires a known set of rules (in this case the route was marked as uni directional if I understand Mayhem correctly) rather than visible discouragement. Running a red light is illegal, it doesn't matter if you 'know' that it's safe because there are no other cars around or because it's only just turned red. That logic means that you're leaving the definition of 'safe' to each person's judgement which naturally varies. The guy coming the other way might decide that 2 seconds is safe. Someone else might think it's safe as long as he goes through really fast. You get my point. It's not up to riders to determine whether they can ride up a track that has been demarcated as a down track, regardless of whether they have the skillz, the experience, the awareness. All of those points (which I think Bianchi Man also made) are irrelevant in the same way that a person arguing they only JUST ran the red robot is irrelevant. I get your point about human psychology but as you say, making a track really hard to climb up might just be seen as a challenge by some super skilled cowboy. I really don't know what more can be done to stop the Darwin Award candidates other than clear signage. I'd be interested in suggestions. Right, car packed, time to head out. I seriously hope there aren't any hipsters heading up the tracks this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted January 2, 2015 Share and what keeps anarchy in check? The people who obey the rules and stand up for society's values. Well done Myles and Mark, you guys deserve thanks for trying to do the right thing. Many would have shrugged it off and left it for someone else. If Tokai was to be overrun by anarchists, it will be an unpleasant place for others. I think we forget quickly what mountain biking in nature offers and just for the record, strava is a byproduct of the challenge we place on ourselves. We quickly become disillusioned by what is right or possible because of this "challenge". In my humble opinion, anyone openly admitting to willingly posing a risk to others has forgotten what life was like without mountain biking. They should look for thrills in other places because the mountain represents sanctity to others - i.e. a place to get away from the sh!t world this attitude creates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted January 2, 2015 Share Ian Anderson wrote a song about your type, in actual fact an entire album name is dedicated to it. Nobody mentioned skills , bragged or attention whored around it, neither is this particular trail a well known S.A. downhill track .was it the 2012 album or the 2014 one, they both apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted January 2, 2015 Share I agree with the argument for how we should behave. The countries constitution is written with this altruistic slant that we need to be self governing and responsible citizens but then it also removes the possibility of policing of the people by the people since that would be seen as infringing on someones rights.... similarly, we write a set of rules to encourage use of mtb trails to promote the sport, gain numbers and support but don't have necessary policing mechanisms in place to ensure that we all tow the line. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm all for educating other riders about what is expected and what is frowned upon. Thats how culture develops. But we need to be careful of picking little battles when there are bigger battles. Because eventually you end up fighting all the battles and then you lose everything. So the toppie had a hissie fit about being told off. Leave it there. Natural selection will works its magic. SOmeone always need to be the shining beacon of failure to discourage others from doing the same.So if a oke with more fragile bones wants to take on a 18Kg DH rig with his 9Kg carbon 9'er then he has made that choice.He has been educated, he had been advised and he has read the signage. Clearly he is taking a calculated risk and like the stock market someday that risk will not pay off...........50/50 chance actually. Why get bentout of shape over him. When he sees his gat I will admire the heritage of his bike but I'll still be thinking, "What a d***head" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted January 2, 2015 Share I am by most measures, a decent, law abiding citizen, and in the past(years ago) have tried to ride up that trail to improve my lamentable skills. To be fair, there were no notices and I had no idea it was down only. Also, there were no cars in the car park and had seen noone else around. And because I knew the Trail coming down I could look up for people. However, if there is someone who can do it in 12s coming the other way, fork me, he can have it to himself. Sometimes it is just common sense to change, and total ignorance of one's surroundings that causes 'experienced' people to not want to. And if he does know it,there are signs, and he still chooses to risk other people's safety, he is a tosser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted January 2, 2015 Share Again, I think this is more about HOW the toppie reacted rather than the trail marking, his climbing ability, general South African disregard for rules or Darwin bla bla bla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge540 Posted January 2, 2015 Share I agree with the argument for how we should behave. The countries constitution is written with this altruistic slant that we need to be self governing and responsible citizens but then it also removes the possibility of policing of the people by the people since that would be seen as infringing on someones rights.... similarly, we write a set of rules to encourage use of mtb trails to promote the sport, gain numbers and support but don't have necessary policing mechanisms in place to ensure that we all tow the line. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm all for educating other riders about what is expected and what is frowned upon. Thats how culture develops. But we need to be careful of picking little battles when there are bigger battles. Because eventually you end up fighting all the battles and then you lose everything. So the toppie had a hissie fit about being told off. Leave it there. Natural selection will works its magic. SOmeone always need to be the shining beacon of failure to discourage others from doing the same.So if a oke with more fragile bones wants to take on a 18Kg DH rig with his 9Kg carbon 9'er then he has made that choice.He has been educated, he had been advised and he has read the signage. Clearly he is taking a calculated risk and like the stock market someday that risk will not pay off...........50/50 chance actually. Why get bentout of shape over him. When he sees his gat I will admire the heritage of his bike but I'll still be thinking, "What a d***head"That's all well and good but what about the poor sod who has right of way plowing into him. Why should he suffer because of someone else's stupidity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Potgieter Posted January 2, 2015 Share Seriously okes....whats a mountain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pista Posted January 2, 2015 Share Seriously okes....whats a mountain? http://enews.coloradomtn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MountKilimanjaro1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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