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Carbon v Alu pros and cons


sawystertrance

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Posted

I beg to differ with you on Alu cannot be repaired,it can be repaired seen it done before.

uhm, I did say repaired easily....ie, the person that does the fix can be johnny visvingers that has done a weekend course in welding. 

 

Its a hot process, with mixed results. thats all

Posted

 

 

Oh come on he's hardly tapping the tubes!!! LOL

 

Maybe just watch few repeats of that overpriced stage race that happens in March. You'll see how easy carbon frames can break when you hit them just right and hard enough (as opposed to half arsed by a ham fisted muppet).

Its one reason why I would seriously consider aluminium rear suspension for stage racing. Theres not much weight loss with carbon, the expense is silly and the life expectancy lower.

Posted

Just to maybe throw a cat in the dog kennel....

 

Saw some videos last night where carbon frames are tested against alu frames at the Santa Cruz workshop. The carbon frames could withstand a whole lot more abuse than the alu counterparts... in some cases double the punishment, which puts a whole new spin, in my mind, on the alu vs carbon debate.

 

However... when the alu strikes a weak spot it cracks/ bends, which means in some cases you might still be able to get home. When carbon hits a weak spot it breaks/ shatters, which means your wife is gonna come pick you up.

 

They block youtube here but I'm sure if you search for this you'll find it. The MAIN question in my mind is does the more expensive carbon really has that much of an advantage over the new alu frames for a recreational rider (i.e. non racing snake)?

Posted

It's pointless.If it's a dual sus, go for Alu. The flex and forgiveness in carbon is made redundant by the rear shock.Carbon is strong in so many ways, but particularly weak when it comes to impacts. Alu is better at this.Alu will be close in weight, less to worry about when it comes to crashes, very stiff and strong, and your rear shock will smooth out the bumps.Plus, unless you're a super top pro, I don't see how you might take advantage, never mind even notice the difference of the tiny gains of carbon.Just my 2c.

Agreed. Comfort will be from the suspension. Carbon will be stronger and a bit lighter, but more sensitive to crashes on sharp rocks. No more needs to be said.

Posted

Ally, titanium and steel frames I repair quite often. Gave a carbon frame in the autoclave at the moment so will see how it works out repair wise. Although ally is more rigid it still does flex enough as opposed to steel or titanium. Weight wise, there is a slight difference but not much.

Posted

I've seen the santa cruz video and how they demonstrate the fatigue life and toughness of the carbon frames.again that extra performance comes from making tube junctions larger and even tube diameter. Carbon allows flexibility in design and it's zootier so they can upsell. Do you need that extra stiffness? Do you need to save that 250 gr on the frame? I wonder when I see people 10 kg over design weight and with a bike shop in their camelbak if having a light frame was really necessary. Chose what you like based on what you want to spend but the fact that al bikes are still winning the weekend warrior grand prix tells me for the average rider there is little difference in performance

Posted

I've seen the santa cruz video and how they demonstrate the fatigue life and toughness of the carbon frames.again that extra performance comes from making tube junctions larger and even tube diameter. Carbon allows flexibility in design and it's zootier so they can upsell. Do you need that extra stiffness? Do you need to save that 250 gr on the frame? I wonder when I see people 10 kg over design weight and with a bike shop in their camelbak if having a light frame was really necessary. Chose what you like based on what you want to spend but the fact that al bikes are still winning the weekend warrior grand prix tells me for the average rider there is little difference in performance

 

My view exactly! When you are not at the sharp end of the field, the man on the bike makes the difference, not the material of the frame etc etc. I have been passed by toppies with beer bellies in some races, riding an old school steel frame mtb with a rigid fork and then I'm trying my best to keep up on my carbon XTC. Comfort and budget, that is in my mind the main factors. Not naming brands... but in my recent research if a there is a R14k difference between the alu and carbon version, I'd rather get the alu and upgrade the drive train and wheels etc with the additional 14k... just my view.

Posted

I can only comment on Cannondale roadbikes, and there is only one major difference in my mind ~ comfort.

 

My alu CAAD10 is a great frame, does everything it should, some say it is better than a lot of carbon frames out there, but man it can be a back breaker on rough surfaces.

 

On the flipside, my carbon Supersix EVO floats over rough surfaces as if it has built in shock absorbers (which it kinda does with the shaping of the rear triangle bit, or so I'm told)

 

There is no comparison in terms of comfort, the carbon wins hands down. Other than that, normal riding, climbing, sprinting, whatever, it feels the same to me. Put them both on a smooth road, uphill or down, and they are the same.

Posted

EVO was designed with comfort in mind. Its a grand tour race bike. The CAAD10 although used for the tour was designed more with American criterium style racing in mind so stiffness was always the main consideration as well as cost. There are plenty of crashes in Crits and having a more cost effective frame with the stiffness required for out of the saddle sprints lap after lap was attractive.

 

different design intents and you feel that in the ride.

Posted

I had a Giant XTC Carbon Composite 1.. 2012 model....

 

I was doing the Hill 2 Hill in 2013, bombing down a hill at about 27-35 KMp/h when my front wheel disappeared into a crack which was eroded away from the rain.

 

I broke my frame at the head stock where the top tube and down tube met, crushed it on both tubes as the fork and wheel folder under my bike..

 

It also cracked the upright tube (seat post tube) and down tube both sides of the BB...

 

Needless to say, frame was toast.... 

 

In this accident I could not have seen ALU having any further benefits...

 

 

ANYWHO... I though I could get back on the bike and at least finish the race verse having to quite.... So got back on the bike and started coasting down the hill... 

 

Picked up a bit to much speed  a bit further down the hill and wanted to feather the brakes... front break locked up and again folded under the bike as it had no rigidity....

 

I went flying, again!!!, and then this time broke my collarbone... This time retiring from the race... hahahahaha

 

 

I had no problem buying another carbon frame..

 

Biggest difference for me is the feel of a carbon frame in terms of vibrations, this you will notice on longer marathon rides specifically.... 

Same goes for carbon stems, seat posts, handlebars.. etc... 

its not so much the weight you save as the comfort of it feel and less fatigue on the body...

 

Having said all the above, cracks do happen and I dont mind this... BUT I will NEVER buy a secondhand carbon frame as you loose the warranty and it becomes dead weight without it...

 

My opinion is that the heavy premium you pay for a new carbon frame at a shop is for the fact that the brand my have to replace that frame more likely than and ALU (even though they also get cracks)... 

For this I cant see why second hand carbon frames charge a premium as you get no value from it in terms of support...

 

PS that video was very interesting.....

 

All my 2c... 

Posted
uhm, I did say repaired easily....ie, the person that does the fix can be johnny visvingers that has done a weekend course in welding. If you have a broken Alu frame are you really gonna take it to a backyard welder? The idiot that does that deserves what's coming to him. If it's done by a pro you can fix anything,been in the trade for a long time now and tech has come a long way.

 

Posted

My view exactly! When you are not at the sharp end of the field, the man on the bike makes the difference, not the material of the frame etc etc. I have been passed by toppies with beer bellies in some races, riding an old school steel frame mtb with a rigid fork and then I'm trying my best to keep up on my carbon XTC. Comfort and budget, that is in my mind the main factors. Not naming brands... but in my recent research if a there is a R14k difference between the alu and carbon version, I'd rather get the alu and upgrade the drive train and wheels etc with the additional 14k... just my view.

 

Yip! Carbon wheels on a good quality Alu frame makes a lot more sense than average wheels on a carbon frame. Carbon wheels give you low rotational weight and stiffness where you need it most. ( Or maybe second most.. ^_^ ).

 

Some boutique companies use 7005 Alu: Stiff, light and strong. Marry that with carbon wheels and you'll have a sweet ride!

Posted

I bought a carbon bike after I managed to crack the last three alu frames that I owned. Haven't had it long enough to say how well it takes impacts from rocks etc. but I haven't held back yet and for a change I don't feel like I'm breaking my bike when I ride drop-offs or jumps. Stiffness improved but probably due to the larger headset bearings and the 35mm stanchions on the pike. Weight benefit is great too.

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