TALUS Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 It is the biggest load of garbage that there is an "RSA way" and a natural way. Not one country in the world has exclusive medical knowledge. MANY factors play a role. Some cannot be measured such as available sickleave and a social state paying for you to stay home with an income. Also in a socialist setup it is ALWAYS cheaper "to do the natural thing". They never present you with the costs in time and money to fix a non-union (much higher) and also those welfare countries never bring up the problem of someone in gainfull employment that spent time doing the "Natural Way" and then ending up then doing surgery and needing more sickleave and time off the bike. Why don't you ask your friend (who most likely is a Trauma Surgeon - Germany has a different system) what the incidence of non-union is. Trauma Surgeons don't do the non-union surgery themselves but it is readily available. Absolute bollocks that the plate must come out and even more nonsense that most medical aids won't pay for removal. I have never heard of such a case. Easy question: What does every Ortho I know do when they break a clavicle? Have it operated. Every one except the retirees. I have personally put plates on two colleagues. Insinuating that the decision is made due to financial implications is very ignorant. If there is a complication and the operation can be proven to be unnecessary, you will have a huge claim directly against the Dr. The German on the other hand has NO personal liability and he gets to go on lunch earlier because he fended of some work.
V12man Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 It is the biggest load of garbage that there is an "RSA way" and a natural way. Not one country in the world has exclusive medical knowledge. MANY factors play a role. Some cannot be measured such as available sickleave and a social state paying for you to stay home with an income. Also in a socialist setup it is ALWAYS cheaper "to do the natural thing". They never present you with the costs in time and money to fix a non-union (much higher) and also those welfare countries never bring up the problem of someone in gainfull employment that spent time doing the "Natural Way" and then ending up then doing surgery and needing more sickleave and time off the bike. Why don't you ask your friend (who most likely is a Trauma Surgeon - Germany has a different system) what the incidence of non-union is. Trauma Surgeons don't do the non-union surgery themselves but it is readily available. Absolute bollocks that the plate must come out and even more nonsense that most medical aids won't pay for removal. I have never heard of such a case. Easy question: What does every Ortho I know do when they break a clavicle? Have it operated. Every one except the retirees. I have personally put plates on two colleagues. Insinuating that the decision is made due to financial implications is very ignorant. If there is a complication and the operation can be proven to be unnecessary, you will have a huge claim directly against the Dr. The German on the other hand has NO personal liability and he gets to go on lunch earlier because he fended of some work.I only have one thing to add.... If you go the "natural way" then in general you will have a lot of pain for a considerable period - a slight bump on the shoulder in the lift at work for eg is pretty painful... as is sleeping, eating with a knife and fork, walking and driving is impossible for several weeks - to say nothing of safe driving.... or driving in a drugged state. Me - I have had 2 natural (age 15 and 48 (greenstick) ) and 1 plated (24) - next time this happens it is being plated for sure - unless it is just a greenstick, and that is unlikely at my advanced age... And on a serious note - anyone who thinks medicine in SA is an easy job. http://eishmadiskakhi.blogspot.be/2008/09/you-are-not-real-saffa-doctor-until-you.html?m=1 The comments need to be read too. I am missing 2 on this list....
Patchelicious Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Absolute bollocks that the plate must come out and even more nonsense that most medical aids won't pay for removal. I have never heard of such a case. My ortho at Bryanston (also a cyclist) told me that he has done over a thousand clavicle plate jobbies and only ever had to take out 2, as in 1, 2 not 20 or 200. less than 0.002%.... also said that if it caused discomfort that Medical would cover.
Veebee Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 My ortho at Bryanston (also a cyclist) told me that he has done over a thousand clavicle plate jobbies and only ever had to take out 2, as in 1, 2 not 20 or 200. less than 0.002%.... also said that if it caused discomfort that Medical would cover.Great to know, hope I'm not 1 that has to remove it. 7 weeks of recovery to go...
BarHugger Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Great to know, hope I'm not 1 that has to remove it. 7 weeks of recovery to go...So now the Photographer thread will pick up speed..... Healing vibes.
NotSoBigBen Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 My son has had both sides done and plated, one an MTB fall and the other a motorbike accident. The first one he was 15 and the suggestion was to have it out as he was still growing which we did. The second he was nearly 19 and it was advised to leave it in. It does cause some very mild discomfort for example when driving long distances with a seatbelt on but not enough to necessarily want to have it out and the recovery time thereafter.
Patchelicious Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 My son has had both sides done and plated, one an MTB fall and the other a motorbike accident. The first one he was 15 and the suggestion was to have it out as he was still growing which we did. The second he was nearly 19 and it was advised to leave it in. It does cause some very mild discomfort for example when driving long distances with a seatbelt on but not enough to necessarily want to have it out and the recovery time thereafter.Mine is uncomfortable, in a gross way not a "sore" way. I have lost lots of weight since my plate went in, and if you touch it you can feel the pins and plates and you "gril", you can see the pins through the skin even yuk.... but the bone has not bridged back lekker so will leave it in.
Veebee Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 So now the Photographer thread will pick up speed..... Healing vibes.Not just yet hey, not much content to post but I will get out soon.
TALUS Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Sure if the plate irritates you and the bone is healed then take it out. There is a marginal increase risk of fracture until the body compensates. A much more relevant and technical matter is what to do when a slender female breaks a clavicula. I will leave it out there for a while...(Try to find the most important but seldom mentioned reason not to operate a lady and at the same time a good reason why it is sometimes not advisable to let nature take its own route in a lady).
DJR Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Mine is uncomfortable, in a gross way not a "sore" way. I have lost lots of weight since my plate went in, and if you touch it you can feel the pins and plates and you "gril", you can see the pins through the skin even yuk.... but the bone has not bridged back lekker so will leave it in.Now that's the part I like......I can use the knobbly bits of the screw heads under the skin to freak squeamish people out!
DJR Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Oh, and I like telling people I got screwed by an orthopod! Just kidding. The surgeon and the anaesthetist were bargains, but I truly got screwed by the hospital and the theatre! Still, it saved me a fortune because I'm self employed and it got me out of pain almost instantly and back on the bike a lot sooner and more comfortable.
Bobbo_SA Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Sure if the plate irritates you and the bone is healed then take it out. There is a marginal increase risk of fracture until the body compensates. A much more relevant and technical matter is what to do when a slender female breaks a clavicula. I will leave it out there for a while...(Try to find the most important but seldom mentioned reason not to operate a lady and at the same time a good reason why it is sometimes not advisable to let nature take its own route in a lady). For: The repaired bone mostly heals cleaner and "flatter" than a natural heal (Can it not also affect her posture if it pulls the shoulder in?) Against: The scarring from the op will always show as females generally wear lower / more open dresses etc.
TALUS Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 For: The repaired bone mostly heals cleaner and "flatter" than a natural heal (Can it not also affect her posture if it pulls the shoulder in?) Against: The scarring from the op will always show as females generally wear lower / more open dresses etc. You are pretty close. Scarring is always an issue in ladies (some skin types more than others), but so is a big callus which often forms after non-surgical treatment (note the term is not conservative treatment).The clue to the more "lady specific" reason is above.
TALUS Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 The supra-clavicular nerve is very hard to protect in midshaft surgery. If damaged it can leave sensory deficit in a large part of that chest/breast up to, and sometimes including the areola. The fear is for breastfeeding and sexual functioning. All of this is just to show that there is much more to most medical topics when you treat real life patients. For instance- it is not unknown to see a pasient with bilateral fractures. I wonder how zee German will treat that? Bilateral slings? Who will help with the paperwork at the toilet? And while we are on it: who knows the results and complications of a procedure the best? Surely not the people that seldom does it! I will stop now. This was just a topic close to everyone's hearts to prove that it is wrong to oversimplify topics that other people spend years on studying and actually treating.
eccc whippet Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 how can you prevent this happening...chest/shoulder guard?
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