Simonpurdon Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Hey guys! Recently read something interesting about the rear braking system on the dual sus PYGA's. They all employ the same mechanism, if I'm not mistaken, with the callipers mounted on the seat stay. It was said that if the brakes are locked at the back, it effectively locks the pivot movement and in turn locks out the suspension. This makes sense to me. Has anyone noticed this "lock" on their's? Also, have you noticed any recurring issues of bent rotors? This was claimed to be one of the side-effects of this "design flaw". Wondering why they didn't use a horst link? Anyone who can shed some light into the issue, please do so!
Baracuda Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I have wonderful Pyga, a gorgeous Pyga, and have never had this lock out issue. This bent rotor thing was brought up by a muppet on: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/pyga-stage-max-eurobike-2015.html It makes absolutely no sense. Like all brakes, it is pulling / stopping in line with the disk, not sideways. There is no reason to believe it would bend a rotor. The force required to buckle a rotor is insane. The wheel would spin out, before you bent the rotor.
NukeproofPeanut Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Ya I also read that comment. I can see how it could happen (the lock out, not the bent rotor ), but I really doubt it's noticable whilst riding or it would have been "corrected". I see enough pyga's around, so doubt there is any concern
MarcBurger Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 From Bikeradar review of the 110: We rode the course after all the weekend's racing had wrapped up, and even on the well-worn braking bumps the PYGA's rear wheel was surprisingly planted. Moreover, the unique rear brake setup – the caliper is mounted to the seat stays despite having pivots located above the rear dropouts – provides a slight floating arrangement that keeps the rear end from locking up when the pads are engaged."I wanted to design a bike that could provide an active suspension under braking, but it needed to be single-pivot without infringing on any patents," Morewood said. "I found that by placing the pivot as close to the rear axle as possible I could achieve this. It doesn't give the same braking anti-squat that other brands have, but there is another small benefit: the pads move up and down slightly on the disc rotor, preventing grooves from wearing into the pads or rotor."
Niner Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Read the same thing, and could not understand it either. Most other bike in that category uses the brake caliper mount on the seat stay.
NicoBoshoff Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Read the same thing, and could not understand it either. Most other bike in that category uses the brake caliper mount on the seat stay. Kona's is on the chainstay, precisely because they had horrible brakejack. But reading Morewood's explanation I am not going to argue the issue. He seems to say it works because of the proximity of the pivot to the drop-outs. I know zip about suspension. I defer.
NicoBoshoff Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 I have wonderful Pyga, a gorgeous Pyga, and have never had this lock out issue. This bent rotor thing was brought up by a muppet on: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/pyga-stage-max-eurobike-2015.html It makes absolutely no sense. Like all brakes, it is pulling / stopping in line with the disk, not sideways. There is no reason to believe it would bend a rotor. The force required to buckle a rotor is insane. The wheel would spin out, before you bent the rotor.Strange thing is that muppet picked it up when he got on the bike, locked the brake and tried to compress the suspension. Took it up with the sales rep at the stand and he admitted (reportedly) that it was a flaw. What do we make of that?
NicoBoshoff Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 PS. Classy thread you guys have going on there on Pinkbike...waving the flag high I see. PPS. Winning races has very little to do with the bike. Gary was winning on other bikes too. PPPS. I guess Giant make the best bikes since Lombardi's been winning of late.
Hairy Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Hey guys! Recently read something interesting about the rear braking system on the dual sus PYGA's. They all employ the same mechanism, if I'm not mistaken, with the callipers mounted on the seat stay. It was said that if the brakes are locked at the back, it effectively locks the pivot movement and in turn locks out the suspension. This makes sense to me. Has anyone noticed this "lock" on their's? Also, have you noticed any recurring issues of bent rotors? This was claimed to be one of the side-effects of this "design flaw". Wondering why they didn't use a horst link? Anyone who can shed some light into the issue, please do so! Brake Jack .... who is she? Horst Link ..... this is seriously not the holly grail of suspension systems, so no idea why those pinkbike muppets were suggesting PYGA should have gone that route.
rouxtjie Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 If you are in the market Simon I suggest you go ride all of them. Also with a mixed bag of suspension types..single pivots, four bar, ABP, split pivot, DW link, VPP. The right bike will scream buy me. If it feels hond ride the next one.
Baracuda Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Strange thing is that muppet picked it up when he got on the bike, locked the brake and tried to compress the suspension. Took it up with the sales rep at the stand and he admitted (reportedly) that it was a flaw. What do we make of that? Nico, I read that, went down to my garage and tried.There is no way you can transfer that much force.I am not sure if he has double pot brakes, tin-foil disks and weighs 150kg and is jumping up and down on it with zero shock pressure, but it does not make sense. Would love Pyga's view on this.
nolipoli Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 So I have thought a little about this, and it appears that the PYGA setup allows some movement of the brake caliper relative to the centre of the disc. As it is not a floating disc or caliper, I can understand that a locked up disc coupled with suspension movement would create forces that may want to bend the disc. But as Baracuda above points out, it would be very surprising if a standard disc, caliper, rider combo could actually do anything.
Simonpurdon Posted September 2, 2015 Author Posted September 2, 2015 If you are in the market Simon I suggest you go ride all of them. Also with a mixed bag of suspension types..single pivots, four bar, ABP, split pivot, DW link, VPP. The right bike will scream buy me. If it feels hond ride the next one. I've actually got a OneTwenty and absolutely love it. My brother is on the 110 and we were discussing the other day how we don't really ever experience 'bike envy'. Just wanted to see other people's take on it, I can't say I ever realised the brake jack.
NicoBoshoff Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 So I have thought a little about this, and it appears that the PYGA setup allows some movement of the brake caliper relative to the centre of the disc. As it is not a floating disc or caliper, I can understand that a locked up disc coupled with suspension movement would create forces that may want to bend the disc. But as Baracuda above points out, it would be very surprising if a standard disc, caliper, rider combo could actually do anything.As brake rotors heat up they become softer (moving closer to another state as heat increases, particles move apart and kinetic energy increases) so if you ride moer hard, long decents and happen to hit a bunch of big holes with the brake locked (and given the design, the suspension not taking all the shots and hence transferring some force to the brake and rotor) it is entirely feasible that the rotor will squash and warp out.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 He also proposes that it's a design flaw. A "stupid design" and "no wonder they're moving away from gravity" I think that's what go everyone's backs up...
rouxtjie Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 I've actually got a OneTwenty and absolutely love it. My brother is on the 110 and we were discussing the other day how we don't really ever experience 'bike envy'. Just wanted to see other people's take on it, I can't say I ever realised the brake jack.Nice one meneer...there right there, is where you want to be.
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