So we're losing pro teams

[Spinnekop]

There should be a separate league for Elite/pro riders with distances equal to those in Europe. Why can't the CSA implement something like this. Isn't it their duty to do so?

Nope.

Race organisers. 

But race organiser tend to go after the money.  I.e. funriders.

 

Take away the "sportive" calander.  Ban all Elite riding "Sportive" events, i.e. Ride for sight etc.

Get sponsors for PRO events.  Host them.

 

Sponsors wont come because SA people wont support because it is not RUGBY or CRICKET. 

As easy as that.

[JA-Q001]

Such league will get all the top riders in the same place at the same time. That way, the standard will be higher and the riders will benefit. Currently, there are a small number of small teams and they tend to cherry pick events where the competition is limited and they stand a better chance at the prize money.

Basically you answered yourself why it wont work. There will be no prize money or limited prizes, so no incentive.

 

To think, when I was a junior, we still raced inter-provincial  races, each province would send their top 6 in each category, even sometimes having enough to send a B team. these days juniors learn from early on to only go race big races with prize-money and the same happens with the teams.

 

This is probably one of the few places that I agree with PPA, they cater for funrides, not races, most races should be either handled by a club or the province itself.

 

but ja, I do agree that elites should start manning up, they do it for easy money in SA, that's why most of them migrated to MTB when the road money started drying up, so guess in what direction MTB is going next.

[Loose cog]

Again I blame CSA. For years, our top locals are stuffing around with 90km fun rider events. There is no way that a cyclist racing on such short races can compete in Europe with their 200km plus events.

 

I agree, we need to change our racing format. Funrides like the Argus, 94.7 etc. should lengthen the distance to 160km for the top seeded guys and girls. 

[Spinnekop]

I agree, we need to change our racing format. Funrides like the Argus, 94.7 etc. should lengthen the distance to 160km for the top seeded guys and girls. 

Been there, done that.

Did not work.

 

I did the 94.7 that was 190km long.

5 or 10 official finishers. 

Nothing came from it.  Just less Elite entries

 

Same goes for Carnival City, Lost City, Dome 2 Dome and Satellite challenge.

[xcd]

....and look at him now, in the WT for 2016. 

Agree ! 100 %

As Doug put it " you have to invest in yourself before you can expect a team to invest in you" Europe is not for everyone.

I remember Aaron Brown turning down an offer with mtnQ when they went over to Europe.

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

take it back to basics - here in the WP we do it this way.

we dont get involved with the ppa they want to be the mass participation experts so leave them to that.

after the ARGUS is over the WP league kicks in. it had 12 events from March to end of June  - events consisted of crits (1 - 2 kms)  , circuit races (7 - 12 kms)  and road races on a circuit.. distances for road races were all over 100kms. the WP did all the paperwork ie event permission, sanctioning etc etc (and its a lot of work). the wp clubs took responsiblity for on the day logistics ie registration,marshals and so on. 

wp had NO SPONSORS for the events so if a club came up with a sponsor then they had 'naming rights' to the event.

if an event attracted 100 riders we knew we would cover all costs including a bit of prize money. this means we dont cater for the rider that is in the game to make a living from prize money but rather the cyclist who has made cycling his sport.

the events weren't run on age groups but rather like the usa system of category racing and we used the ppa seeding system to filter riders into cat 1 , cat 2.

we have moved to circuit racing because it is so much easier. most of the circuits were all left turns so you can get away with about 10 marshals and limited traffic cops. its spectator friendly as well. most of the circuits are 'flat' which means fast racing. most of the races average over 40 kph , bunch sprints and attempted break aways ie teams dynamics came to the fore at every event.

i believe the wp model is working - the clubs actually want to host events and with the help of local gov they are taking racing into the suburbs. the event pays for itself so the club is not loosing money. there are enough clubs to host just one event.

in 2016 the league will be expanding so its certainly looking up for road cycling in the WP.

most of the riders that fill the mtn quebeka feeder team are from the western cape - coincidence! the u 16 road champ - WP , junior road and tt champ - WP

[MrDLR]

I have to say that I agree with Andy that the small circuit race's are the place to start as it is easier to organize, but the one problem comes when you move up a age cat because in the above system if you are a junior or u/16 racing in the cat 1 bunch where do you go? Especially when you go from jnr to elite as the racing then basically stays at the same level. It's a difficult situation to be in but it's a start from where you can maybe make a longer race for elites that filter through from the cat1 races. Another thing that can help is a school series to get a steady stream of young riders to keep the elite bunches numbers up which will eventually draw more supporters first in parents and friends then hopefully corporates that can bring sponsors in.

[Patchelicious]

Where does my licence fee go?

Which license fees? Because we don't just pay one.

 

CSA? Who knows?

PPA? Huge trust to make sure they are "sustainable"

[Cal Naughton Jr.]

But think of someone like meintjes. Got identified as a talent and then mtn qhubeka got him to Europe.

 

You need the local scene happening and di data picking the cream of the crop to take them further. Youngsters heading off to earth in their eis is a real shotgun approach, and limits it to those who have enough bucks to start with.

Nope . Meintjes, Johan Van Zyl, Reinardt JvR, Jacques JvR, J-L Augustyn, all came from an academy run by Barry Austin up until 2010. He took them over to Europe each year to race as juniors and basically ran a local programme as well.

 

Here's the catch: he went to CSA to establish the exact same model there, but in a non-private form to make it accessible to not 5-10 juniors, but more like 30 juniors. Guess what? Due to the politics and alternate agendas of CSA the plan could never get off the ground and Barry left to restart from scratch this year. He's already managed to send a squad of 6 juniors over to Europe for a programme of UCI racing (not local kermesse or fun rides).

 

So it would be great if CSA could get involved more with local teams, wouldn't it?

 

Note: there are plenty officials at CSA a who are brilliant at what they do and have a genuine love for the sport and collect a minimal salary for all it. Unfortunately, there are also those who are just concerned with collecting a salary and can't give a crap about what is actually happening.

[Cal Naughton Jr.]

And on the note of Di-Data.

 

I'm a massive fan of the team, but what I don't like is their "lack" of South African riders - in numbers and in focus. I mean, in my opinion, Reinardt has the capability of taking the leading role as a sprinter/Boasson Hagen type rider given a bit of confidence.

 

I don't blame Doug for saying that he needs riders who have spent their time in Europe - because having raced there as a junior this year - the difference between junior racing here vs Europe, really is inexplicable.

 

What I do blame Di-Data/MTN/Doug/the team for is not investing in growing and cultivating local youngsters. The only way to do this is to offer juniors/young u23 the opportunity to race in Europe. I mean, CSA isn't doing it, and as (South) "Africa's" premier team, it is somewhat of an obligation - or at least that is how I feel. Di-Data Feeder boys should be given the opportunity to race in Europe and take part in UCI racing on the African calendar, such a Tour of Rwanda (awesome race in itself), Tour of Eritrea, GP Chantal Biya, or any other UCI-accredited races - even if it is just one or two per season.

 

On that note, I've heard rumours that JP van Zyl is trying to grow the Feeder team to continental status, if he gets the funding he wants. That would be a perfect platform... should they get the funding.

[dracs]

Nope . Meintjes, Johan Van Zyl, Reinardt JvR, Jacques JvR, J-L Augustyn, all came from an academy run by Barry Austin up until 2010. He took them over to Europe each year to race as juniors and basically ran a local programme as well.

 

Here's the catch: he went to CSA to establish the exact same model there, but in a non-private form to make it accessible to not 5-10 juniors, but more like 30 juniors. Guess what? Due to the politics and alternate agendas of CSA the plan could never get off the ground and Barry left to restart from scratch this year. He's already managed to send a squad of 6 juniors over to Europe for a programme of UCI racing (not local kermesse or fun rides).

 

So it would be great if CSA could get involved more with local teams, wouldn't it?

 

Note: there are plenty officials at CSA a who are brilliant at what they do and have a genuine love for the sport and collect a minimal salary for all it. Unfortunately, there are also those who are just concerned with collecting a salary and can't give a crap about what is actually happening.

Barry does great work - and working with Malcolm is onto something here...  they have a good value proposition for companies to get involved due to the developmental aspect - for eg support of the academy can even benefit a company's BEE scorecard....  this can sweeten the deal for potential sponsors

[dracs]

Lets not forget the team owners that milk the sponsorship for all its worth for their personal gain...I have heard that a couple of team owners now have very flash cars etc...so a corporate sponsor gets wind of that and goes well if that's where my cash is going then I would rather buy myself a flash car and screw the tax man for my gain...

 

The riders very seldom get paid a livable salary from the above team owner so has to work another part time job so what winds up being sacrificed? - the riding part because feeding yourself and paying rent comes first. I know one rider has had maybe 3 months salary this whole year...

 

I'm sorry bu Mr Ryder is correct...a youngster that can tough it out in Europe is more worth signing than a rich kid who's had life easy (both racing and life) racing locally as Europe has much more depth - 200 - 300 Juniors on the start line for a club/provincial race! so to do well there at least Mr Ryder knows that the kid has had to work for his position!

 

Yes in at least one case this year a corporate sponsor (and one of their cyclists) had this idea and thought they could do better by themselves.  Look at how long that lasted...

 

This thing about team owners making a killing is a complete myth.  I know the riders may feel that way and its true that most of them don't earn a decent salary in SA, but I promise you there are much easier way to make money than by trying to run a pro cycling team in SA.

[Cargyrl]

Note: there are plenty officials at CSA a who are brilliant at what they do and have a genuine love for the sport and collect a minimal salary for all it. Unfortunately, there are also those who are just concerned with collecting a salary and can't give a crap about what is actually happening.

 

DOUBLE LIKE, there are a hell of a lot of CSA officials who are working their butts off, sacrificing weekend in and weekend out for the love of the sport.

 

We have had quite a few initiatives going, this year has been one of the best years with quite a few juniors racing overseas as well as ladies.

 

Pro-racing in SA is just not sustainable. there is just no good financial model here to sustain it.

 

I believe we need to create a criterium style racing, it is high intensity, however we might perhaps get more racing snakes to participate. Who said cycling is an easy profession, in Europe it chew up more riders than it produces. Quite of few of the European racers do self finance and their families also financially contribute.

 

Not all are like Cavendish who has quite good personal sponsors to help out a team.  

[Guest Lancesball]

take it back to basics - here in the WP we do it this way.

we dont get involved with the ppa they want to be the mass participation experts so leave them to that.

after the ARGUS is over the WP league kicks in. it had 12 events from March to end of June  - events consisted of crits (1 - 2 kms)  , circuit races (7 - 12 kms)  and road races on a circuit.. distances for road races were all over 100kms. the WP did all the paperwork ie event permission, sanctioning etc etc (and its a lot of work). the wp clubs took responsiblity for on the day logistics ie registration,marshals and so on. 

wp had NO SPONSORS for the events so if a club came up with a sponsor then they had 'naming rights' to the event.

if an event attracted 100 riders we knew we would cover all costs including a bit of prize money. this means we dont cater for the rider that is in the game to make a living from prize money but rather the cyclist who has made cycling his sport.

the events weren't run on age groups but rather like the usa system of category racing and we used the ppa seeding system to filter riders into cat 1 , cat 2.

we have moved to circuit racing because it is so much easier. most of the circuits were all left turns so you can get away with about 10 marshals and limited traffic cops. its spectator friendly as well. most of the circuits are 'flat' which means fast racing. most of the races average over 40 kph , bunch sprints and attempted break aways ie teams dynamics came to the fore at every event.

i believe the wp model is working - the clubs actually want to host events and with the help of local gov they are taking racing into the suburbs. the event pays for itself so the club is not loosing money. there are enough clubs to host just one event.

in 2016 the league will be expanding so its certainly looking up for road cycling in the WP.

most of the riders that fill the mtn quebeka feeder team are from the western cape - coincidence! the u 16 road champ - WP , junior road and tt champ - WP

 

Yes but all your races are flat crit type events. Suits a small handfull of riders at best the rest just go cause its a basic race of sorts to do. 

[Patchelicious]

Barry does great work - and working with Malcolm is onto something here...  they have a good value proposition for companies to get involved due to the developmental aspect - for eg support of the academy can even benefit a company's BEE scorecard....  this can sweeten the deal for potential sponsors

Barry and Malcom are really trying to get an development academy going.

Not only this, but they are getting results too!! LeadOut Riders are popping up at the front of many events! They are also sending guys to get experience in Europe. Unfortunately, a big hopeful got ill on the last trip. But this is the European experience that Doug is referring too.

 

Barry has a real passion for the sport and such a wealth of knowledge its scary.

I hope they get it right to keep this academy going. I really wish that all cycling related "license charging bodies" would get behind these guys!

[SwissVan]

And on the note of Di-Data.

 

I'm a massive fan of the team, but what I don't like is their "lack" of South African riders - in numbers and in focus. I mean, in my opinion, Reinardt has the capability of taking the leading role as a sprinter/Boasson Hagen type rider given a bit of confidence.

 

I don't blame Doug for saying that he needs riders who have spent their time in Europe - because having raced there as a junior this year - the difference between junior racing here vs Europe, really is inexplicable.

 

What I do blame Di-Data/MTN/Doug/the team for is not investing in growing and cultivating local youngsters. The only way to do this is to offer juniors/young u23 the opportunity to race in Europe. I mean, CSA isn't doing it, and as (South) "Africa's" premier team, it is somewhat of an obligation - or at least that is how I feel. Di-Data Feeder boys should be given the opportunity to race in Europe and take part in UCI racing on the African calendar, such a Tour of Rwanda (awesome race in itself), Tour of Eritrea, GP Chantal Biya, or any other UCI-accredited races - even if it is just one or two per season.

 

On that note, I've heard rumours that JP van Zyl is trying to grow the Feeder team to continental status, if he gets the funding he wants. That would be a perfect platform... should they get the funding.

 

Good post

Funding, money..... that's the biggest problem. There are plenty of opportunities and people to exploit them BUT they all need funding. 

 

Times are tough, companies like MTN / Didata are spending huge amounts already to get / remian on the main stage, SA cycling needs other sponsors to step up and fill the gaps lower down.

 

Hell even the Swiss cycling federation are feeling the squeeze, and they seem to have much more funding than SA Cycling will ever have 

 

Quote from cyclingworld.com

"Financial cutbacks have forced Swiss Cycling to cancel its women’s program, in order to save funding in the amount of CHF 500,000 for next year because of a lack of sponsors. The cutbacks will affect the support programs for elite women road riders, consisting of training camps and participation in races abroad, according to initial reports in Neue Zurcher Zeitung and CyclingTips".

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/swiss-cycling-drop-womens-program-after-financial-cutbacks/