Stretch Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 It's easy. Obey 100% of the rules of the road 100% of the time. No matter what mode of transport. The end. drive defensively no matter what mode of transport you are in
kosmonooit Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 It's easy. Obey 100% of the rules of the road 100% of the time. No matter what mode of transport. The end. So even though you/me/us as cyclists obey the rules of the road, fine, but that will not stop us being killed. I will do what is necessary to ensure my safety, if that means riding on the 'wrong' side of the road (though only on the verge) so I can see the on coming traffic, or on the payments so as to avoid it, so be it. I have a right to live. I have had so many Near-Death-Experiences whilst cycling on the rosds here whereby I just managed to avoid the grasp of the grim reaper by taking avoiding action, just in time, from the car pulling out in front of you, turning in front of you, running a red light when its green for you to cross etcetera etcetera ... but that's thanks to being able to see the danger and take avoiding action, Its the one you don't see that will kill you. How can you see a motor vehicle coming up from behind you on a road where you are dutifully obeying the rules of the road? This is now most of these lethal accidents are happening.
RocknRolla Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I agree with you Kosmo, but this is as a result of the disregard for the rules of the road. We are beyond the point of "more police presence" etc etc SA motorists need to reset their mindset from 80 in a 60 zone, to 60 in a 60 zone.Stopping at a stop sign, observing and proceeding, in stead of slowing down and rolling through. Stopping on amber, if safe to do so. Staying in the queue in stead of speeding down the emergency lane because of being late for a meeting, or the kids being late for school again. How do you achieve this? Don't wait for other people to change their behaviour, if everyone is waiting for the other person to change first....well that's where we are now The authorities are hammering on speed being the main culprit, but it's far far worse than that. When last did you see a pedestrian given right of way at a traffic light? when last did you see a pedestrian crossing a demarcated pedestrian crossing when within 50m of said crossing? The only way I see it changing is if each person changing their behaviour, not more policing from the authorities, who themselves are not even following normal traffic rules.... Anyway i'm not attacking you, I'm just using your post to elaborate on something I have clearly spent a lot of time forcing myself to change my own behaviour. I'm far from perfect, but at least I am trying to be conscious on the road while operating a vehicle, or being a pedestrian.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Don't wait for other people to change their behaviour, if everyone is waiting for the other person to change first....well that's where we are now When last did you see a pedestrian given right of way at a traffic light? when last did you see a pedestrian crossing a demarcated pedestrian crossing when within 50m of said crossing? This, as an example. Generally speaking if I see someone at a crossing (loads of them here in CT) I stop. Indicate that they can go... What I find is that if a car is next to me, they go through, but 8/10 times the next one stops as well. It's a simple behavioural adjustment, but it all adds up.
Kapenschtaten Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I ride through the neighborhoods where I can, and avoid the main roads. The sprint between the stop streets is a great interval workout. Plus if there is a big dog on the loose you can get your Mario Cippollini style TDF sprint finish vibes going......hahahahaha Rule of thumb should always be to just stay out of harms way.
Tumbleweed Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 How effective are hashtag campaigns? And what makes the successful ones effective? I am sure there are many people who have hashtag fatigue. Social media is so crowded that many become meaningless just because of sheer volume.
RocknRolla Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Well, the amount of people tweeting and driving, at least seeing a # to look out for cyclist may be effective? What about #baddriversmustfall
Tumbleweed Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Well, the amount of people tweeting and driving, at least seeing a # to look out for cyclist may be effective? What about #baddriversmustfall Haha! True. Love reading convos when someone posts a pic taken from inside their cars of someone else driving badly. Doesn't take long for the "you know it's illegal to be on your phone when..." posts to start.The #(insert issue here)MustFall campaigns - well, some of them - had their efficacy proved as the results were tangible. In this day and age, "Ja, I retweeted that..." is doing one's bit.
BarHugger Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 How effective are hashtag campaigns? And what makes the successful ones effective? I am sure there are many people who have hashtag fatigue. Social media is so crowded that many become meaningless just because of sheer volume.Do you have a better solution to this situation or are you just being negative because the Lawman is involved ?On a side note ,heard him talk about on the radio MIX 93.8 FM. quite a few people interested in getting behind it .
Tumbleweed Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Do you have a better solution to this situation or are you just being negative because the Lawman is involved ?On a side note ,heard him talk about on the radio MIX 93.8 FM. quite a few people interested in getting behind it . No, I questioned the efficacy of hashtag campaigns. Edit: Before you get all high and mighty, it seems that I'm not the only one questioning just that: Bicycle Safety SA @bicyclesafetysa 17h17 hours ago16200+ #becyclistaware followers and we can only get 25 retweets!!!!! We are obviously not serious about this. So sad As to the second part of your question, maybe bone up a bit on hub history, pull your head out your arse, or anyone else's it happens to be up...you may find some interesting interchanges between myself and your "Lawman" about bicycle safety, including a couple of thank yous, instances where differences were put aside for a common good. That you suggest that my question has something to do with some enmity says more about you than either of us. I'm bigger than that; I would like to think he is too. You? Well...
Frosty Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Tragic as it is, just another symptom of really dire state of driving culture in SA, in particular pointing to a pandemic of lethal attitude problems, like "I have a right of drive where I like and how how I like, get out of my way, I don't care if you die" The only safe way to cycle on any SA road is not to. But if you must,,you have to be able to see traffic so you can avoid it. if this means riding on the 'wrong' side of the road, so be it. Personally I like to stick to the pavements where possible, which is also technically law breaking.Riding on the correct side of the road, and having to deal with one car overtaking another car, both doing 100km/h or more and passing within millimeters of the group/cyclist... has happened far too many times for my liking. On the bike, as well as in the car - it's not only unique to cyclists but a generally accepted behavior/practice (by reckless drivers). Choosing to ride into oncoming traffic for me would be even worse. I dislocated my AC joint after hitting the bike in front of me, over the bars and greeting the tarmac because the riders in front panic-braked. I didn't even have time to move hands from the flats to hoods, let alone the brake levers. How the car overtaking didn't hit us (we fell INTO the road), I'll never know... guess it wasn't our time. Friends have been hit (by the side mirror) resulting in severe bruising and one or two fractures.
popcorn_skollie Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 The driver who had caused the accident didn't think he was taking any risk at all. Who would be so foolish to risk their life on the road? Surely such a foolish person shouldn't be allowed to drive. But that wasn't him. He knew that he was an experienced motorist able to overtake safely at speeds higher than that which is lawfully permitted. He was more than competent enough to handle his vehicle in wet and windy conditions at high speeds. He had previously witnessed such accidents himself as a passer by and have heard the outrageous statistics of fatalities on our roads in the news. The reality however would have no impact on his mindset because it didn't affect him. Until it did. But by then it was too late.
kosmonooit Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I am not saying we should disobey road laws just because others do, but honestly I cannot ride on a road without having full information as to where other vehicles are and what they are doing, it makes me feel queasy and nervous, you can't take for granted anything, that is just reality here right now. Rockou I do agree about setting an example and giving way where ever possible and when I am riding/driving I try do, certainly, esp. for pedestrians. That can go some way to improve driving culture if enough people do it, certainly "give way" is an ethos most drivers could learn and ultimately benefit from, but the general culture of driving here is just about the opposite. So what do we do beside banter here? Honestly I don't know and feel helpless resignation, even indignation. Don't expect much from powers that be, for all the 100's of millions of Rands spend on bike lanes here in Joburg, and all the media fluff about "green" this and "eco" that, they are waste of money mainly because the bike lanes are simply green paint on already established roads, no provisions for crossings at intersections, and they don't even follow popular commuter bike routes. Metro Police here are ineffective at policing bad driving. And way too many drivers that really should not be allowed to drive and in charge of an instrument that can so easily kill people. Getting a Drivers license should be made way tougher, like getting a Fire Arm License. And most drivers should be sent to re education camps if they want to continue driving. The only thing that is going to get anyone's attention is a mass protest/sit-in on a busy important road/intersection or somewhere that will bring the place to a halt: preferably city, local and national gov,
Tumbleweed Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I am not saying we should disobey road laws just because others do, but honestly if I cannot ride on a road without having full information as to where other vehicles are and what they are doing, it makes me feel queasy and nervous, you can't take for granted anything, that is just reality here right now. Rockou I do agree about setting an example and giving way where ever possible and when I am riding/driving I try do, certainly, esp. for pedestrians. That can go some way to improve driving culture if enough people do it, certainly "give way" is an ethos most drivers could learn and ultimately benefit from, but the general culture of driving here is just about the opposite. So what do we do beside banter here? Honestly I don't know and feel helpless resignation, even indignation. Don't expect much from powers that be, for all the 100's of millions of Rands spend on bike lanes here in Joburg, and all the media fluff about "green" this and "eco" that, they are waste of money mainly because the bike lanes are simply green paint on a already established roads, no provisions for crossings at intersections, and they don't even follow popular commuter bike routes. Metro Police here are ineffective at policing bad driving. And way too many drivers that really should not be allowed to drive and in charge of an instrument that can so easily kill people. Getting a Drivers license should be made way tougher, like getting a Fire Arm License. And most drivers should be sent to re education camps if they want to continue driving. The only thing that is going to get anyone's attention is a mass protest/sit-in on a busy important road/intersection or somewhere that will bring the place to a halt: preferably city, local and national gov, Now we're getting somewhere...
kosmonooit Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Now we're getting somewhere... Yes enough of this #cyber_hot_air - but then again us pale faces are pussies when it comes to public protest... Although I can toi toi if need be.
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