Cholesterol

[Capricorn]

I tried the Noakes route (LCHF/Banting or whatever the correct term is) twice.

 

Secondly my cholesterol skyrocketed and my GP was not happy. He strongly advised me to stop it and made it clear that ultimately its my choice but it is his duty as a medical professional to tell me.

 

 

over what period of time did this 'skyrocketing' occur?  What were the actual levels of cholestrol, and what was the associated baseline?

[jcza]

over what period of time did this 'skyrocketing' occur?  What were the actual levels of cholestrol, and what was the associated baseline?

 

I don't have the exact numbers but first attempt lasted 6 months with increase from 4.5 to just over 6. (total cholesterol) 

 

Second time around I peaked > 8 with LDL of 5.5. This (LDL) dropped to 3.5 after I stopped. 

[Capricorn]

I don't have the exact numbers but first attempt lasted 6 months with increase from 4.5 to just over 6. (total cholesterol) 

 

Second time around I peaked > 8 with LDL of 5.5. This (LDL) dropped to 3.5 after I stopped. 

 

Thanks JCZA

[JannievanZyl]

There's no 'one-size-fits-all' answer here.

 

The vast majority of people see a marked improvement in their cholesterol numbers when eating LCHF. HDL-C always go up and Trigs always go down. These are the two most important measures.

LDL-C is not nearly as important but it still improves for many people, around 30%. Another 30% see LDL-C stay flat and the last 30% see an increase in LDL-C. Again, in all cases, HDL-C and Trigs improve.

 

The best marker for potential CVD is TG/HDL. You want this ration less than 0.8.

LDL-C is a poor marker, if any at all.

Clearly there are genetic exceptions to the above including familial hypercholesterolaemia (very high LDL-C) or Hyperalphalipoproteinemia (very high HDL-C). These clearly need to be treated.

But elevated LDL-C is not the scary thing your doctor think it is. Research clearly shows that statins are only effective for men with previous CVD events and then only to some extend. No reason for anyone else to take statins.

If you're worried about possible plague buildup, do a Coronary Artery Calcium Score. It will show if you have anything to worry about. Anything else is really just speculation, especially a doctor who tell you he 'knows' eating high fat and/or cholesterol will 'clog' your arteries. 

I'm one of those with elevated Total Cholesterol (~8) due to 'high' LDL-C but my TG/HDL ratio is 0.6 (which puts me in the very safe area).

According to many doctors (who've not kept up with the research over the last 30 years), I should have clogged arteries and should keel over any minute. So I had a Calcium Score done and the result was exactly 0 (on a scale of 0 to >400).

Bottom line, most (not all) doctors have lost touch with the latest research on blood lipids and cholesterol (or they just listen to their statin reps), so be careful not to fall prey to their views.

Rather do your own research and figure out what works best for you. And test your own numbers as these are the final say.

[JannievanZyl]

I don't have the exact numbers but first attempt lasted 6 months with increase from 4.5 to just over 6. (total cholesterol) 

 

Second time around I peaked > 8 with LDL of 5.5. This (LDL) dropped to 3.5 after I stopped. 

More importantly, what were your HDL-C and Triglyceride numbers?

[Anticlimb]

I tried the Noakes route (LCHF/Banting or whatever the correct term is) twice.

 

Firstly it made me slower than ever. I was able to ride far but not fast. Even attempted a stage race, which in hindsight was a monumental waste of time and money.

 

Secondly my cholesterol skyrocketed and my GP was not happy. He strongly advised me to stop it and made it clear that ultimately its my choice but it is his duty as a medical professional to tell me.

 

I have since changed my diet and now consume around 60% carbs and I have never been faster. Weight is the same as when I was LCHF/Banting. LDL dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 in just under 3 months.

 

Apparently if high cholesterol is hereditary then meds is the only way to lower it. If not, then you can change your diet. I not keen on meds so I'm trying the diet first and so far so good.

 

I'm not in the mood to play with my well-being which means I'll listen to my doc.  

 

With you:

After banting my cholesterol also sky rocketed .

HDL(good cholesterol) - 1.2

Total - 8.2

LDL - 5.6

 

I ride about 8- 10 hrs per week and consider myself in good shape . The bottom line is , limit the risk . Take the damn meds . I have a wife and 2 boys and life's good . Listen to the doc ! I'm 42 and back on statins after my little banting stint . Yes , it affects your performance (sore muscles etc) but hey I'm not gonna make that podium anyway .  

[Capricorn]

More importantly, what were your HDL-C and Triglyceride numbers?

 

was just about to ask about the HDL levels as well. Nice write up there  

That bit about latest research is key here, as the noakes inflection as i call it (the point at which dietary advise was turned on its head) is very recent, and there's much debate about his findings, notably from established medicine.

[jcza]

More importantly, what were your HDL-C and Triglyceride numbers?

 

Don't have numbers handy but trigs were 0.76 I think. Doc never told me that my arteries will clog up or become inflamed but he did tell me that I am at risk. 

 

I'm not taking chances and embarking on research now in order to argue with a doc that I have trusted for 20 years. Incidentally he was a student of Noakes. 

 

My general feeling of well-being hasn't changed but my performance on the bike certainly has. 

[BarHugger]

12.1.......

[HBO]

If you're worried about possible plague buildup, do a Coronary Artery Calcium Score. It will show if you have anything to worry about. Anything else is really just speculation, especially a doctor who tell you he 'knows' eating high fat and/or cholesterol will 'clog' your arteries. 

 

So where can I get this done? At my doc? Is it a normal blood test or more complicated?

 

I always value your input, thanks.
 

[HappyMartin]

Problem with listening to your doc keeps giving different results and advice. 7 out of 10 doctors reccomend camel. Does that ring any warning bells?

[V12man]

I tried the Noakes route (LCHF/Banting or whatever the correct term is) twice.

 

Firstly it made me slower than ever. I was able to ride far but not fast. Even attempted a stage race, which in hindsight was a monumental waste of time and money.

 

Secondly my cholesterol skyrocketed and my GP was not happy. He strongly advised me to stop it and made it clear that ultimately its my choice but it is his duty as a medical professional to tell me.

 

I have since changed my diet and now consume around 60% carbs and I have never been faster. Weight is the same as when I was LCHF/Banting. LDL dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 in just under 3 months.

 

Apparently if high cholesterol is hereditary then meds is the only way to lower it. If not, then you can change your diet. I not keen on meds so I'm trying the diet first and so far so good.

 

I'm not in the mood to play with my well-being which means I'll listen to my doc.  

JC - the only other thing you can try is to drink 3/4 of a glass of red wine every night - no more - if you don't like red wine then 1  shot of whisky.

 

This does appear to improve the LDL/HDL ratios somewhat - worth a shot anyway, but if you have the cash and time do a proper pre-test first, then after about 3 months do another test to see the result.

 

This has worked well enough for my wife (an insulin dependant diabetic) that her physician no longer wants her to take statins... This was the physician's idea and it seems to have helped.

[eccc whippet]

will be going for a full checkup in January when medical kicks in again...i try not use the medical aid...save it for my daughter and wife...will be turning 50 at the end of the year so i think it will be a good idea to do a major service at the doc...will try get all the test done.

[JannievanZyl]

Don't have numbers handy but trigs were 0.76 I think. Doc never told me that my arteries will clog up or become inflamed but he did tell me that I am at risk. 

 

I'm not taking chances and embarking on research now in order to argue with a doc that I have trusted for 20 years. Incidentally he was a student of Noakes. 

 

My general feeling of well-being hasn't changed but my performance on the bike certainly has. 

Trigs of 0.76 is EXTREMELY good.

[JannievanZyl]

If you're worried about possible plague buildup, do a Coronary Artery Calcium Score. It will show if you have anything to worry about. Anything else is really just speculation, especially a doctor who tell you he 'knows' eating high fat and/or cholesterol will 'clog' your arteries. 

 

So where can I get this done? At my doc? Is it a normal blood test or more complicated?

 

I always value your input, thanks.

 

Most radiologists can do it. Phone the one at your local hospital and ask them if they do it.

 

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/cardiac-calcium-scoring

 

http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=ct_calscoring

 

[JannievanZyl]

JC - the only other thing you can try is to drink 3/4 of a glass of red wine every night - no more - if you don't like red wine then 1  shot of whisky.

 

This does appear to improve the LDL/HDL ratios somewhat - worth a shot anyway, but if you have the cash and time do a proper pre-test first, then after about 3 months do another test to see the result.

 

This has worked well enough for my wife (an insulin dependant diabetic) that her physician no longer wants her to take statins... This was the physician's idea and it seems to have helped.

Red wine will improve HDL-C marginally (you want it higher than 1.7) but as the holy grail id TG/HDL, you should focus more on getting your Trigs as low as possible, aim fro under 1. And the answer here is to cut carbs, starting with the crap stuff and only end up with green, above ground veggies.