raptor-22 Posted November 30, 2015 Author Posted November 30, 2015 I missed something here..... What was the problem, apart form where the numbers were placed on the shirts and the fact that there was no bunch riding.a skilled bunch rider would pick up the incident in the clip... Just saying
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 I suggest education. Non of us can tell a riders skill level just by looking at them. It is up to said rider to go and look for help before hand, attend killarney, join a club etc. That to me is the only way. Maybe I read incorrectly yes, seems like it was purely based on an mtb rider skill level. But there are many more riders on road bikes that do not have the "correct" or "same" skill level as the rest of the bunch. What do you suggest Tubehunter? For sure. Being informed is the only option. But this is a practical skill, not something you can simply learn from watching a video or reading about here, so how to get through to the front seeded chaps to get into bunch riding training situations and encourage them to improve? That is the real question? More so how to come across when having to deal with these people mid race in the thick of an event? These are the real questions we need to figure out some answers to! My only viable suggestion was to penalise their seeding index for road events if they only have mountain bike results for their seeding. (Which would apply the other way round for mountain bike seeding for people who only have road events to base that on!) That way you don't end up with the very noticeable, super strong rider who can hold on, but obviously has no clue about how to merge and move in and around a group racing!
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 The guy falls all by his lonesome. I think what Dicks trying to say it that it doesnt matter whether youre riding 440mm or 780mm, As jy die pyp kan rook then youre more than welcome to sit. Riding like a chop is not limited/determined by your handlebar width but rather the lack of skill and respect for your fellow road users. Heres a chap from our area that did a sub 3 on sunday on his 29er. He also races with it on killarney and he can totally hold his own "Hold your line" What line is that? there is no race that has got lines painted across the route with each rider choosing to stay within/on said line. Why should I indicate to you when I am going to sip from my bottle? Im not expecting you to indicate that to me. As jy wil drink dan drink jy mos. Also pointing out/indicating that you want to come into the gap thats infront of me, you dont have to take your hand off the bar, point into the gap and then ask me. I can see that theres a gap and that youre slowly moving into it, TAKE IT! Its my responsibility to be fully aware of whats going on infront and to the sides of me. I cannot be held responsible for whats going on behind me as I do not have a rear view mirror and I do not have eyes behind my head but that also does not mean that I am going to go ape shitt and start switching people. Go to Killarney if you feel inadequate and get nervous about those around you. Ill say it again, it boils down to skill level and respect, never mind fitness. Like the saying goes, you want to bark like a big dog yet you still piss like a puppy. Im sure that dogs bark doesnt care about your handle bar width.Yho, more eloquently put than I could.
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 A quick point to the space you're looking to take up at the back of a functional paceline cause you don't want to drop back behind the wheelsucker section after doing your pull at the front is often the only way to avoid going completely backwards in a group! Not that many switched on riders out there that know how to control the bubble behind a working paceline or rolling turn effort these days... Again too many guys trying to take up too little real estate making for some very interesting situations out on the road! We probably would not race well together. I jabber along most of the time shouting out warnings about what's coming up ahead and to chaps in my immediate space about where and what I'm doing. Not really so much, I think we would race well together, for the rest not so much.
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 For sure. Being informed is the only option. But this is a practical skill, not something you can simply learn from watching a video or reading about here, so how to get through to the front seeded chaps to get into bunch riding training situations and encourage them to improve? That is the real question? More so how to come across when having to deal with these people mid race in the thick of an event? These are the real questions we need to figure out some answers to! My only viable suggestion was to penalise their seeding index for road events if they only have mountain bike results for their seeding. (Which would apply the other way round for mountain bike seeding for people who only have road events to base that on!) That way you don't end up with the very noticeable, super strong rider who can hold on, but obviously has no clue about how to merge and move in and around a group racing!Remember I was talking about the sharp end of the race, not funrider bunches. If you are in the funrider bunchers, Those that put the numbers on the back anything goes, they do not ride a paceline, in a bunch (even though they think they do) most do not ever spend more than 30 seconds at the front of the bunch and often times are the ones bitching about the pace from the comfort of the "exploded" bunch.
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Not really so much, I think we would race well together, Look forward to it! I'm not a dead wheel so I shouldn't get any touches on the @ss...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Remember I was talking about the sharp end of the race, not funrider bunches. If you are in the funrider bunchers, Those that put the numbers on the back anything goes, they do not ride a paceline, in a bunch (even though they think they do) most do not ever spend more than 30 seconds at the front of the bunch and often times are the ones bitching about the pace from the comfort of the "exploded" bunch. AYE, not the social finishing bunches.... Have a look and see how many chaps are pulling up at races seeded at the front (within the first 4 groups) and are riding full off road rigs these days. You're kinda expected to know how to ride there and use the little space you get in the group wisely! This is not the case though!
'Dale Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 A MTB in a fast-mixing right bunch definitely creates nervousness for me heyI always tried to get ahead of it It's of a different proportion, size wizeHas different braking powerHas the protruding bars The sound of knobblies whirring on the tarmac For slower bunches and more fragmented bunches it's less risky of course
Martin PJ Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I suspect a lot of people commenting about MTB's in the bunch just don't ride fast enough. I am a pretty average road racer and I can count on one hand the number of times an MTB could keep up with our bunch for any period of time. Let's be honest the fast roadies that MTB cause a lot more complaints than the MTB's that ride road races. The solution to all these problems, train harder and ride faster.
V12man Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 The average riders skill is more of a concern,than what bike they ride in what race. In a normal panic situation most will just hit the anchors. Granted I have no idea what it's like at the sharp end of a road race. Scary me thinks,especially with wide bars and f all bike control. But if a mtn biker can ride with road bikes and knows the protocol or rules of bunch riding . Then is there an issue?In the real racing bunches - NO issue at all - if they can hang in - good for them - BUT - there is the question of dress code in the bunch.... clearly this is more important than the bike you ride.... Glasses for instance must be UNDER your helmet straps.... and your shirt and socks must match.... amongst many other style things that the Spruit rats don't seem to have completely mastered....
Barend de Arend Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Starting a racing bunch on a MTB puts you at an immediate disadvantage. That means you're not taking it seriously enough to win[1]. If you're not taking the racing seriously, don't interfere with the people who do want to race. If you want to hang on the back, or pedal in the open bunch for training, go right ahead. [1] there are, of course, exceptions. Burry would have been welcomed on his MTB.
Mopkop Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 For sure. Being informed is the only option. But this is a practical skill, not something you can simply learn from watching a video or reading about here, so how to get through to the front seeded chaps to get into bunch riding training situations and encourage them to improve? That is the real question? More so how to come across when having to deal with these people mid race in the thick of an event? These are the real questions we need to figure out some answers to! My only viable suggestion was to penalise their seeding index for road events if they only have mountain bike results for their seeding. (Which would apply the other way round for mountain bike seeding for people who only have road events to base that on!) That way you don't end up with the very noticeable, super strong rider who can hold on, but obviously has no clue about how to merge and move in and around a group racing!Fair enough But If I am able to race in the first 4 bunches do not get upset/aggro towards me with my 780mm bars I am not capable of riding there with my mtb in anycase. I think something to remember aswell is the fact that not everyone has got various bikes for the different disciplines. I think thats why there is so much mtbs in road races.
Skubarra Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 At your next race, please join me, if you can finish with me ..you will have an A-seeding,I will even sign your saddle.. Sure, challenge accepted. Name the race, Bouckaert Soenen in January? If you beat me on your mtb I'll buy you a beer and I'll bring my koki pen along...
KarlvN Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Okay, lemme hijack this thread a bit and let the cat amongst the pigeons... So there I was earlier this year on my maiden K2C race, and straight out the blocks I encounter folks walking up the first hill, when it is CLEARLY just a bit of single track skill that would get you over the top. Herein lies the rub, many of the folks riding in this event are roadies at heart. So, in my humble opinion, skills are a very hazy area when you ride cross discipline. You can be an absolute ace on the tar, and completely suck at gravel riding, and you can be a champ on the trails, and be a complete and utter nut on the tar. Complaining about either is not going to solve much, as it seems that this culture was cultivated by the mass participation events, which in essence cater for all skills and types of riders, i.e. keeping it rather middle ground-ish.
Kranswurm Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Starting a racing bunch on a MTB puts you at an immediate disadvantage. That means you're not taking it seriously enough to win[1]. If you're not taking the racing seriously, don't interfere with the people who do want to race. If you want to hang on the back, or pedal in the open bunch for training, go right ahead. [1] there are, of course, exceptions. Burry would have been welcomed on his MTB.Instead he chose to ride on his road bike.
Kranswurm Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Sure, challenge accepted. Name the race, Bouckaert Soenen in January? If you beat me on your mtb I'll buy you a beer and I'll bring my koki pen along... Go for it...I remember a challenge between two well known hubbers on that hill climb before the Argus
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.