Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 25, 2016 Share I'm confused.... On the one hand you're saying pedaling in circles doesn't, yet on the other hand the common consensus is that oval chain-rings aid pedaling in circles and this reduces fatigue and improves traction on the MTB on steep loose climbs. Secondly there seems to be a lot of concessions to pedaling with flats. You have to keep re positioning you foot on the pedal, have to only push down etc etc etc. But MTBIng brings a host of different terrain on a single ride. It just seems there needs to be a lot of workarounds to make flat pedals comfortable for use on a MTB. I used flats in my BMX days and they were great for that but the pedaling style still involved more use of the pedal circle to get the necessary powerIs that the real consensus though? I thought the consensus and aim was to provide a platform where the enhanced "power" portion of the ring was positioned in such a way as to favour the natural power stroke of a pedalling motion - ie on the way down. So no, not pedalling in circles, but placing more emphasis on the "mash" section of the stroke. I could be wrong, but that's what I got from my cursory investigations into it. I haven't had a good look at it yet 'cos my normal ring still has months of usage left in it. As for the "concessions" - nah, I don't see them as concessions, but advantages. I certainly never had to reposition my feet on the way up, but on the way down I can put them wherever I want - into the most stable position (foot central) and just have that additional control & stability without butchering your calves.. Besides, you don't have to reposition your foot all the time. Flats allow you to do that. Which is a good thing. As for the oval thing - I dunno yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share Im confused on this, I need to get a chain ring for my new 1x10 conversion. Now most of the pro guys tel me that oval is the best thing since sliced bread but, when I mention that Im riding flats they say I should get a round one. Lol....Pro's ride clipped in, what would they know?But honestly man I was sold on the thing in the first few hundred meters.Buy the Kalbo one, it's cheap so if you REALLY don't like it then sell it to someone and get a round one.I have the RaceFace NW32T and moved to the Absolute Black NW 32 and won't buy a round ring again personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted January 25, 2016 Share I think it comes to how you ride, I pedal kinda in circular motion and have no issues with power of foot position. I place the pedal in the middle of my shoe, when I need some power I just drop my heel and stomp down. When I ride flat areas I keep my foot level and pedal in a circular motion. Thanks for that. Its interestng because its the same for a rider using clip in's. Its just that their foot is bound to the pedal. Sometimes its a stomping action with heel drop, othertimes a smoother rounder shape to the pedal stroke is required. Only difference is one is bound and the other isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 25, 2016 Share So I'm thinking there's no real anatomical benefit here. The objective of the pedaling stroke is just to make up for the inefficient use of a smaller part of the available arc in which power can be producedIt stands to reason that a more gradual hand over of load between muscles is more efficient than regular stomping with greater force?I'd agree with you here in principle, and I think that this is where the whole "cleats are more efficient than flats" argument came in... But one has to ask just how much the 2 pedal platforms differ in that respect. On the flats, you have the downward stroke and pull rearwards, just like you get in cleats. There isn't all of a sudden zero contact with the pedals, and they're still gripping the shoe, so you still get the effect of the "sweep" motion at the bottom of the stroke, till about 8 on the clock or so (foot rotates, downwards - heel up - pushes pedal back) Likewise, you still have an element of the push just before 12, to get the downstroke going (heel down, forward pressure) So even though you're not "pulling" from 8 to 11, the other leg is already in action and the foot-over (handover just sounded wrong in this instance) has already taken place - the downward stroke, sweep, helps upper foot rotate past 12 and mash, sweep, repeat... Am I making sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share Thanks, I see how your preference has developed. But this bit still doesn't make sense to me:"Oval rings with flats REALLY help that little bit before your foot gets to the 12 'o clock position to allow you to be able to do a little bit of a horizontal push...that's what I've definitely noticed.In so doing it makes it "feel" as though you are pedaling in circles." How is it possible for the assistance before 12 o'clock to not be pedaling in circles. It sounds like its not so much a feeling but an event. The muscle activation doesn't happen instantaneously since the command has a long way to travel and other muscles need to be activated in order for that push to occur. There has to be a pull from the hamstring.Also without the lift the is achievable when the foot is secured to the pedal, So I'm thinking there's no real anatomical benefit here. The objective of the pedaling stroke is just to make up for the inefficient use of a smaller part of the available arc in which power can be producedIt stands to reason that a more gradual hand over of load between muscles is more efficient than regular stomping with greater force? Well...you're not pedaling in circles as you cannot do a full up-stroke. As for the physics, I haven't done the calculation and am not particularly keen (my second year mechanics is a little rusty anyway ), but I certainly don't feel more efficient clipped in than with flats.But I love the feeling of riding with them...and my oval Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share I'd agree with you here in principle, and I think that this is where the whole "cleats are more efficient than flats" argument came in... But one has to ask just how much the 2 pedal platforms differ in that respect. On the flats, you have the downward stroke and pull rearwards, just like you get in cleats. There isn't all of a sudden zero contact with the pedals, and they're still gripping the shoe, so you still get the effect of the "sweep" motion at the bottom of the stroke, till about 8 on the clock or so (foot rotates, downwards - heel up - pushes pedal back) Likewise, you still have an element of the push just before 12, to get the downstroke going (heel down, forward pressure) So even though you're not "pulling" from 8 to 11, the other leg is already in action and the foot-over (handover just sounded wrong in this instance) has already taken place - the downward stroke, sweep, helps upper foot rotate past 12 and mash, sweep, repeat... Am I making sense?Makes total sense to me but I ride them and have for a while.Perhaps it is something one will only believe/notice when you've ridden with a decent set of pedals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted January 25, 2016 Share yes makes sense. Which sort of supports the view then that the flats vs clips is really a matter of preference for what gives you more confidence to improve your riding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share yes makes sense. Which sort of supports the view then that the flats vs clips is really a matter of preference for what gives you more confidence to improve your ridingFor sure...was there ever any doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted January 25, 2016 Share For sure...was there ever any doubt? Not in my mind but this is Bikehub... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Posted January 25, 2016 Share I'm moving back to flats to try do the blue route at Thaba! Clipped in I won't try half the stuff that it has to offer. That being said I also won't be going as quick on the green downhills. Once I am confident on the more technical stuff I will move back to clipless. Just a skill learning and confidence for me really. Or the difference between falling at slow speed clipped in or at high speed getting bumped off flats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share I'm moving back to flats to try do the blue route at Thaba! Clipped in I won't try half the stuff that it has to offer. That being said I also won't be going as quick on the green downhills. Once I am confident on the more technical stuff I will move back to clipless. Just a skill learning and confidence for me really. Or the difference between falling at slow speed clipped in or at high speed getting bumped off flats. The falling at speed with flats is the same as clipped in...You come out of your pedals quick quick.The slow speed though the flats are more confidence inspiring IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerdoodle Posted January 25, 2016 Share Where does one buy a decent set of pedals? LBS don't seem to stock them. CRC has good pricing/discounts, but after shipping and customs...? (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/za/en/pedals?f=2258) Local online doesn't have much, perhaps these:http://dialdbikes.co.za/dartmoor-stream-pedals.html? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share Where does one buy a decent set of pedals? LBS don't seem to stock them. CRC has good pricing/discounts, but after shipping and customs...? (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/za/en/pedals?f=2258) Local online doesn't have much, perhaps these:http://dialdbikes.co.za/dartmoor-stream-pedals.html?Easybike has a pretty good deal on the Shimano Saint's...I am very happy with them http://www.easybike.co.za/shimano-saint-pedals-pd-mx80.html I believe TrailTech Cycles stocks the Spank stuff and a set of Spank Spikes will be rad...but quite a bit more costly than the Shimano's I would bet. Also you can generally find the Giant Flat pedals seem pretty decent as well and you can usually pick em up at a few LBS's that I've been to here so should be good in Gauteng as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robodog Posted January 25, 2016 Share Riding everyday is difficult for me unless its just around the garden practicing some tricks and riding off the lapa steps...lol...do you find more benefit from riding flats? I enjoy the freedom of flats and that you learn a lot of skill which you miss out on by riding cleats. When you switch between them you'll find you are a better, faster rider on cleats. I think mtbers should be able to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Posted January 25, 2016 Share The standard flats that bikes come with also don't help the argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophage Posted January 25, 2016 Share The standard flats that bikes come with also don't help the argument! Those can't even be considered flats dude :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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