Why did my brakes fail, and what should I do to avoid this happening again?

['Dale]

*road ike calliper reference*

 

Certain KCNC braking systems are reputedly light (and reliability  / dependability can thus be questioned) and have often warped under high pressure

Leaving for some desperate moments

['Dale]

Above all else, Brand'

 

You are one lucky cyclist

[BrandonF_]

Above all else, Brand'

 

You are one lucky cyclist

Thx Dale ???? I may have to review a few believes, reviews, and trusts...

[Skylark]

I don't see how the brakes could completely fail, brake fade yes but in that instance it still leaves you with some braking just not very much.

 

Perhaps the rather strange sensation of the brakes fading(it does initially feel like you've lost all brakes because the braking force doesn't increase with added lever pressure) and the op panicked and in that instant gave up on the brakes doing anything and bailing become the only viable option.

 

I've recently experienced glazed brake pads on my car and the brakes feel sharp but in heavy braking they fade after a certain point. The issue was budget brake pads, had some good pads fitted and the issue is gone.

 

Considering the OP's levers didn't go to the bars it can't be heat related brake fluid boiling or of a hydraulic nature.

 

Those rotors do look sketchy as hell though and alligator pads are fully budget brand pads, perhaps that combination made some pretty serious fade which the op was blindsided by?

[BrandonF_]

I don't see how the brakes could completely fail, brake fade yes but in that instance it still leaves you with some braking just not very much.

 

Perhaps the rather strange sensation of the brakes fading(it does initially feel like you've lost all brakes because the braking force doesn't increase with added lever pressure) and the op panicked and in that instant gave up on the brakes doing anything and bailing become the only viable option.

 

I've recently experienced glazed brake pads on my car and the brakes feel sharp but in heavy braking they fade after a certain point. The issue was budget brake pads, had some good pads fitted and the issue is gone.

 

Considering the OP's levers didn't go to the bars it can't be heat related brake fluid boiling or of a hydraulic nature.

 

Those rotors do look sketchy as hell though and alligator pads are fully budget brand pads, perhaps that combination made some pretty serious fade which the op was blindsided by?

Thx Skylark... ???? but I'm naturally a far better downhiller, than my much average rated climbing ????

 

So, "Perhaps the rather strange sensation of the brakes fading(it does initially feel like you've lost all brakes because the braking force doesn't increase with added lever pressure) and the op panicked and in that instant gave up on the brakes doing anything and bailing become the only viable option."

 

..in my humble opinion don't apply ????

 

When I experienced "no brakes", I've experienced" NO Brakes" ????,.. Not funny at the time, but I know what happened, as a (skilled imho) mtb'er

[Skylark]

So you had full and normal lever pressure and zero brakes?

 

Serious brake fade I suppose could result on almost zero brakes, those rotors are pretty ridiculous. How did the brakes feel as you descended or was it a case of perfect brakes one minute zero brakes the next?

[SwissVan]

Just had a look at the rotors online. Jeepers, bro - there's hardly any material there!!! With a buildup of heat, no wonder they failed. Nowhere for the pads to bite. 

 

http://coresites-cdn.factorymedia.com/bikemagic_new/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1-IMG_5613.jpg

Those are ridiculous

+ metal pads

+ steep descent

= YouTube comedy material

[DJR]

Those are ridiculous

+ metal pads

+ steep descent

= YouTube comedy material

I think you are right.

[BrandonF_]

So you had full and normal lever pressure and zero brakes?

 

Serious brake fade I suppose could result on almost zero brakes, those rotors are pretty ridiculous. How did the brakes feel as you descended or was it a case of perfect brakes one minute zero brakes the next?

Like that,..surprisingly, just like that...

[BrandonF_]

Those are ridiculous

+ metal pads

+ steep descent

= YouTube comedy material

..not really sir. Maybe "Alligator metal pads failure",...but prior to that, been running "Baradine Metal pads/KCNC Razor rotors,..no probs....sir ????

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

..not really sir. Maybe "Alligator metal pads failure",...but prior to that, been running "Baradine Metal pads/KCNC Razor rotors,..no probs....sir

Sorry dude, but those rotors are ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous...

[JXV]

Greetings Hubbers,

 

So this morning I've lined up for the Ashburton Meerendal Marathon, and 4km's into the event, I experienced something I have never experienced, never crossed my mind happening, and had no reference to the terrifying, helpless feeling it would be, should it happen...

 

It was fairly hot already, and as we've summited the first climb, a long steep fairly rocky jeep track descend, with thick fynbos (thank God), on both side, followed.

 

About 200m down, feathering here and there, my brakes suddenly had no braking ability at all, I started speeding down this jeep track, with nothing else to stop me, but sticking my leg out in the fynbos at 37km/h,..and take the "calculated" OTB,..luckily into fynbos....

 

My brake set-up is 2016 XT8000, two KCNC Razors 160mm rotors, and Alligator metal pads.

 

I've used the KCNC Razors/Metal pad set-up for quite a while, and never had issues before...

 

So I'm confused as to what could've caused this, and should I rather change my set-up, to avoid this happening again..

 

I came off light, considering the possibilities, with only a gash in my left hand, needing 3 stitches.

 

Do you fit no-name aftermarket pads and discs to your car? I only ever tried it once. The trailer I was towing the next week pushed me right through an intersection against a red light with my foot flat on the brakes.

 

What is wrong with Shimano ice tech discs and Shimano pads? They really work.

 

Most of the aftermarket discs have way more air and less steel friction surface between the pads than OEM discs, whichever brand you like. They are also often thinner. That means the pads must clamp harder to exert more pressure on less steel to get the same braking. This wears the pads faster and heats the disc more. That heat feeds back into the pads and can cause fade. Since the aftermarket pads and discs are often thinner than OEM they can force the pistons to operate outside their normal range of displacement.

 

Its simple physics and false economy .

 

I bet Alligator never tested their below-shimano-spec pads on below-shimano-spec KCNC discs or vice versa. Both are brands that buy in their stuff from elsewhere.

 

Sorry for the injuries but Brakes are safety critical items and your excellent M8000 brakes deserve the pads and discs they were designed for. This will keep them within their designed temperature and piston displacement ranges with the best chance of stopping you reliably.

[Shebeen]

There were hydraulic pressure, but zero braking power, the descent was long and quite steep, with riders close in front, looking quite skittish, hence the feathering, and at one point there was nothing, and the bike just picked up speed.

 

I'm 78kg, and 9.2kg bike

Are you a bit of a weight weenie? Didn't realise rotors like that existed.

[tubed]

Glad you are ok, could have been a lot worse.

 

I remember a similar amount of debate and gesturing when Evans lost his brakes that year in the Epic - I think the conclusion then was also - very costly mistake caused by weight weenie obsession.

 

Just across the way this morning I was sukkeling with limited back brakes at Rheebokskloof and spent some time in the bushes with some added sore bits tonight.

 

Interesting had also washed everything with Prepsol and looking at the pads this afternoon they dont look 'dry' enough - perhaps some pads dont like Prepsol.

 

Hope you get better soon.

[BrandonF_]

Do you fit no-name aftermarket pads and discs to your car? I only ever tried it once. The trailer I was towing the next week pushed me right through an intersection against a red light with my foot flat on the brakes.

 

What is wrong with Shimano ice tech discs and Shimano pads? They really work.

 

Most of the aftermarket discs have way more air and less steel friction surface between the pads than OEM discs, whichever brand you like. They are also often thinner. That means the pads must clamp harder to exert more pressure on less steel to get the same braking. This wears the pads faster and heats the disc more. That heat feeds back into the pads and can cause fade. Since the aftermarket pads and discs are often thinner than OEM they can force the pistons to operate outside their normal range of displacement.

 

Its simple physics and false economy .

 

I bet Alligator never tested their below-shimano-spec pads on below-shimano-spec KCNC discs or vice versa. Both are brands that buy in their stuff from elsewhere.

 

Sorry for the injuries but Brakes are safety critical items and your excellent M8000 brakes deserve the pads and discs they were designed for. This will keep them within their designed temperature and piston displacement ranges with the best chance of stopping you reliably.

..dont scream at me, Im only a child...

 

Just kidding,..yeah, Im the worlds worst weight weenie,..ok, maybe second worst after Evan Kevins..(or whatever),..

 

I dont pay for anything done on my car, petrol, installment, insurance etc etc, so I cannot comment.

 

But I do like to experiment,..and in "this case" ..got burned...#pointtaken????

[BrandonF_]

Glad you are ok, could have been a lot worse.

 

I remember a similar amount of debate and gesturing when Evans lost his brakes that year in the Epic - I think the conclusion then was also - very costly mistake caused by weight weenie obsession.

 

Just across the way this morning I was sukkeling with limited back brakes at Rheebokskloof and spent some time in the bushes with some added sore bits tonight.

 

Interesting had also washed everything with Prepsol and looking at the pads this afternoon they dont look 'dry' enough - perhaps some pads dont like Prepsol.

 

Hope you get better soon.

Thx Tubed, appreciate your mild manner and best wishes ????

 

Like I've mentioned, thank God it ain't that serious ????

 

All comments are valid, and appreciated, and I'll make necessary changes to avoid this situation occur again ????