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[Capricorn]

Why are people so reluctant to spend good money on tools?

 

Have we become so used to cheap Chinese tools that we forget that many years ago our grandfathers spend a month's wages on a good Stanley plane (when they were still built in the USA) and a Rabone or Starret combination square.

 

No wonder then that these days you can only find cheap Chinese tools in the big stores.

 

Well, as the saying goes: it's often the user, and not the tool. The majority of ppl don't need extravagantly priced tools to accomplish what they need doing. Cheap and cheerful also works. Paul Sellers has a few vids comparing cheap with expensive tools, and he proved the adage that prefaced this post. 

So let's not kid ourselves: R4 - R6k for one single item is extravagant, especially given the inflation due to forex alone. Unless you have a deeply vested interest in the hobby or the profession, or simply have a lot of spare cash, it's just not a good buy for the majority of ppl.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Well, as the saying goes: it's often the user, and not the tool. The majority of ppl don't need extravagantly priced tools to accomplish what they need doing. Cheap and cheerful also works. Paul Sellers has a few vids comparing cheap with expensive tools, and he proved the adage that prefaced this post. 

So let's not kid ourselves: R4 - R6k for one single item is extravagant, especially given the inflation due to forex alone. Unless you have a deeply vested interest in the hobby or the profession, or simply have a lot of spare cash, it's just not a good buy for the majority of ppl.

Very true, Cap. 

 

Having said that, I'd love to just splurge on the Lee Valley Tools catalogue. Oh, to have a triple garage and an unlimited budget!

 

Oh. And a well cared for budget item will outlast a badly cared for expensive item every time. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Myles Mayhew

[dev null]

It depends. Maybe that is true for old tools picked up cheaply, or the odd new cheap tool. But I have in my garage an engineers square that is only good for using as a hammer. And a cheap router that only starts when all the planets line up. And a tape measure that don't want to retract back in anymore after a year's use. Aaand a Ryobi Stand Drill that have terrible run-out, that I can't seem to get fixed even after getting an aftermarket chuck.

 

Sometimes you are lucky with cheap tools, most of the times...bleh. They become kids toys.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

It depends. Maybe that is true for old tools picked up cheaply, or the odd new cheap tool. But I have in my garage an engineers square that is only good for using as a hammer. And a cheap router that only starts when all the planets line up. And a tape measure that don't want to retract back in anymore after a year's use. Aaand a Ryobi Stand Drill that have terrible run-out, that I can't seem to get fixed even after getting an aftermarket chuck.

 

Sometimes you are lucky with cheap tools, most of the times...bleh. They become kids toys.

I think there needs to be a distinction between cheap and affordable. Or at least cheap and cheap junk. 

 

There are lots of good cheap tools, but there are also loads of cheap junk tools. 

 

Case in point - my B&D mouse sander. Bloody excellent piece of kit, that, and it was a bargain. Yeah, the dust management would be better with the likes of a Festool, but then I'd be paying muuuuch more for it. 

 

But then again I wouldn't be able to utilise the Festool's superior dust management anyway, as I don't have a shop vacuum.

 

Then you get the likes of Mastercraft vs Stanley screwdrivers & other hand tools. And then GRIP. Mastercraft are in my experience far superior to both of those, but not that much more expensive. 

 

Also - Barrett & Jackson rip / crosscut saws. Not that much more than the Stanley & GRIP rubbish, but far superior quality, IMO. 

[Ed-Zulu]

Ooh I like that idea, might pick up on that one. I dont have a router but my my dad has one that I borrow when I need to. Looks like quite a simple but effective idea.

And with this bit, it goes quite a bit faster too

[Capricorn]

Very true, Cap. 

 

Having said that, I'd love to just splurge on the Lee Valley Tools catalogue. Oh, to have a triple garage and an unlimited budget!

 

Oh. And a well cared for budget item will outlast a badly cared for expensive item every time. 

make no mistake,i splurged LV  LA #62 jack plane. Amazing using it. Yet, I keep turning to the rehabilitated stanley #3 for anything and everything. I think i'm telling myself to first develop some skill using the old workhorse, actively avoiding spending money. There have been many occasions where i curse myself for not buying a jointer plane at least. But i'll stick it out as honestly, the lessons learnt are worth it Its like when my dad taught me to hold my cricket bat properly by taking away the bat and ball and giving me a sawn off broomstick and a golf ball instead, and telling me I could only use one hand, the top hand. Frustrating as fk, but boy oh boy, the returns were worth the aggravation. 

 

[Ed-Zulu]

The problem I personally have with an affordable tool is the evident lack of balance and ergonomics in most. They lack stability and accuracy: two of my personal experiences

 

The R1000-00 18V Ryobi works, but it doesn't sit well, is unbalanced and a dog after screw 200.

The DeWalt 18V at R2000-00 (what I paid 1 year ago) is a blast to work with, the batteries charge in no time and 460 screw later (fence repairs after wind) I only suffered from a sore thumb (460 screws are plenty!)

 

Ryobi table saw vs Makita table saw = no comparison.

Ryobi had a wobbly blade, needed constant realignment and to be set square every 5 cuts, my Makita get checked weekly and needs a reset perhaps twice a month.

 

However, we all have Myles' problem, money! Otherwise we will all be using the better cast, more accurate machines and tools.

 

I have however found great value in other peoples secondhand goods. A bit of spit and polish and I make them mine

[Rocket-Boy]

It depends. Maybe that is true for old tools picked up cheaply, or the odd new cheap tool. But I have in my garage an engineers square that is only good for using as a hammer. And a cheap router that only starts when all the planets line up. And a tape measure that don't want to retract back in anymore after a year's use. Aaand a Ryobi Stand Drill that have terrible run-out, that I can't seem to get fixed even after getting an aftermarket chuck.

 

Sometimes you are lucky with cheap tools, most of the times...bleh. They become kids toys.

I looked that those Ryobi drill presses because its one of the things Im leaning towards and the quality is terrible. The next level up is more than double the price but its still cheaper than buying the cheap tool and then buying the one you should have got!

Some tools Im 100% in the boat of buying the correct one first time but if its something I think I will use very seldom then Im ok with getting the cheap and nasty version.

One thing that I will never buy cheap is drill bits or any other cutting bits. Its absolutely not worth the frustration buying cheap with those things.

[carrera4s]

And with this bit, it goes quite a bit faster too

 

Sjoe, they go all the way to 3" diameter.

[dev null]

I looked that those Ryobi drill presses because its one of the things Im leaning towards and the quality is terrible. The next level up is more than double the price but its still cheaper than buying the cheap tool and then buying the one you should have got!

Some tools Im 100% in the boat of buying the correct one first time but if its something I think I will use very seldom then Im ok with getting the cheap and nasty version.

One thing that I will never buy cheap is drill bits or any other cutting bits. Its absolutely not worth the frustration buying cheap with those things.

 

yes, mine will be chucked soon. I will probably get a bench drill press next. I have never needed the height that the standing drill offers. But absolutely I will make sure the run-out is perfect when I get one. That is the most important feature in a decent drill press. And the height adjustment on the Ryobi sucks. It has so much slack. Just as frustrating as the blade adjustment screw on the Made In England Stanley planes.

[Rocket-Boy]

yes, mine will be chucked soon. I will probably get a bench drill press next. I have never needed the height that the standing drill offers. But absolutely I will make sure the run-out is perfect when I get one. That is the most important feature in a decent drill press. And the height adjustment on the Ryobi sucks. It has so much slack. Just as frustrating as the blade adjustment screw on the Made In England Stanley planes.

Does your Ryobi have the geared height adjustment? I dont think I have seen any with it and that just means its going to be a nightmare to keep consistent. The Martlett bench version looks like good value for money and it feels really solid.

 

Talking about slack in blade adjustment screws... I think I need about a turn and a half to take up the slack in the little Stanley smoother I use!! I just need to finish my bench and then I will get back on to the made in USA 5c that I was working on.

 

You dont perhaps have any idea where I can find a replacement blade for a Stanley no8?

Mine literally has about 2mm left before it breaks through to the channel in the middle and its way past the hardened steel already. I literally cant find one anywhere in SA but its probably because its an unusual size at 2 5/8"(66mm)

[Capricorn]

Does your Ryobi have the geared height adjustment? I dont think I have seen any with it and that just means its going to be a nightmare to keep consistent. The Martlett bench version looks like good value for money and it feels really solid.

 

Talking about slack in blade adjustment screws... I think I need about a turn and a half to take up the slack in the little Stanley smoother I use!! I just need to finish my bench and then I will get back on to the made in USA 5c that I was working on.

 

You dont perhaps have any idea where I can find a replacement blade for a Stanley no8?

Mine literally has about 2mm left before it breaks through to the channel in the middle and its way past the hardened steel already. I literally cant find one anywhere in SA but its probably because its an unusual size at 2 5/8"(66mm)

 

Try hardware center. The cape town branch had two sizes in stock. unfortunately, i cannot recall those sizes. 

[dev null]

Does your Ryobi have the geared height adjustment? I dont think I have seen any with it and that just means its going to be a nightmare to keep consistent. The Martlett bench version looks like good value for money and it feels really solid.

 

Talking about slack in blade adjustment screws... I think I need about a turn and a half to take up the slack in the little Stanley smoother I use!! I just need to finish my bench and then I will get back on to the made in USA 5c that I was working on.

 

You dont perhaps have any idea where I can find a replacement blade for a Stanley no8?

Mine literally has about 2mm left before it breaks through to the channel in the middle and its way past the hardened steel already. I literally cant find one anywhere in SA but its probably because its an unusual size at 2 5/8"(66mm)

 

I have spare blades for a No 5, 6 and 7, but not for a No 8.

 

I only have one Record No 8, and it was in a deplorable state when I rescued it. Unfortunately it has a small crack in the sole in the one corner of the mouth, so I might even have to chuck it. I am not sure I have the skills to fix the crack with my TIG welder. Cast iron is a bastard to weld.

 

Yes, my Ryobi has a geared height adjustment. A pain in the arse that thing. Have pinched my fingers with that bastard a few times.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Moridin

[dev null]

If you are willing to spend the money.

 

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=42607&cat=1,41182,43698&ap=1

 

I have replaced 3 of my Stanleys' blades with these.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Moridin

[Rocket-Boy]

I have spare blades for a No 5, 6 and 7, but not for a No 8.

 

I only have one Record No 8, and it was in a deplorable state when I rescued it. Unfortunately it has a small crack in the sole in the one corner of the mouth, so I might even have to chuck it. I am not sure I have the skills to fix the crack with my TIG welder. Cast iron is a bastard to weld.

 

Yes, my Ryobi has a geared height adjustment. A pain in the arse that thing. Have pinched my fingers with that bastard a few times.

I still need to unpack the boxes but I think I have probably 4 or 5 number 7's and a ton of blades for them. The no8 was a sneaky one that went from 2 3/8"(6&7) to 2 5/8"(no8 only)

 

I think the only alternative is to either go for a Hock or Veritas replacement set complete with chip breaker. If Im going to get one of those blades then I may as well go the whole way and get the breaker with it.

[Rocket-Boy]

If you are willing to spend the money.

 

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=42607&cat=1,41182,43698&ap=1

 

I have replaced 3 of my Stanleys' blades with these.

I have heard good things about the Veritas blades, did you notice any difference with them from the stock Stanley ones?

Doesnt look like they do a chip breaker though but that isnt world ending.

 

These look like properly solid chip breakers:

http://www.hocktools.com/products/bp.html