Training with a power meter: the ins and outs

[Jakkals.]

So this is quite long... excuse me

 

I feel fatigued!

[APJ88]

Anybody seen a proper marked improvement going from HR to Power training that is not a pro athlete? It makes indoor training sessions easier to execute, but I am not 100% sold on the bike. 

 

I normally just hang on up the climbs and recover till the next one, repeat. Will a power meter make a difference?

I can truly say I have seen a massive difference.

 

as I work a 7 - 5 pm , my time is limited. With specific interval work I managed to get my racing seeding up to a B (ppa) and CAT 1 - WPCA after not riding for 9 years. One of the biggest positives I experienced was the ability to track when I need more rest and when not. Also a simple difference was in the interval itself : Lets say I have to ride 2 minutes at 80% HR - you can clearly see how my power drops during the interval, where now I keep the watts constant - now I can clearly see my HR increasing even further.

 

I enjoy the science and tracking ability of power training. It is however only another tool. Time in the saddle trumps all.

[awesme]

Curious...

 

Who all coaches... that knows TrainerRoad and the Wahoo Kicker.

 

other words, who here is being coached and they know their coach knows this setup.

or who has this setup and that is working with a coach that is taking advantage of what you have, knows and understand the platform.

 

G

[awesme]

Day and night difference.

 

I'm on TrainerRoad+Kicker and also have a coach, which considering my setup is probably not needed, I can use the programs as per TrainerRoad only, but got the coach to motivate/push me... (which at the moment is being reconsidered...)

 

G

 

Anybody seen a proper marked improvement going from HR to Power training that is not a pro athlete? It makes indoor training sessions easier to execute, but I am not 100% sold on the bike. 

 

I normally just hang on up the climbs and recover till the next one, repeat. Will a power meter make a difference?

[awesme]

Analytical mind also, you will love training with power...

 

Try and get yourself a subscription to Trainingpeaks.com. see you mentioning CTL so assuming you building a PMC already.

 

For me the best investment in my riding the last 3-4 years was the Kickr+TrainerRoad, closely followed by the Stages PM on my primary bike.

 

G

 

So this is quite long... excuse me

 

I'm quite an analytic person and an engineer by profession, so my first priority in life is understanding stuff.  My personality, interests and skill set also tends to make me sceptical of gimmicks or anything else that salespeople throw at me until such time that I can justify on a solid technical argument that there really is some tangible benefit.

 

I'm also not into gadgets.  Early in my sporting life (2005) I tried to understand a bit more about training.  At the time I thought it essential to train with HR, so I bought and religiously trained with a HR monitor, did blood lactate and VO2 max tests and tried to understand the basics of nutrition, physiology and almost every other aspect of training.  I got to a point where I thought I understood enough of all of that stuff that for the last ~5 years (after I lost my HR monitor while moving) I haven't bothered to even get as much as a speed sensor on my bike.  I trained for and competed in almost all events imaginable from ironman races, 70.3's, xterra's, road races, MTB marathons, MTB & road stage races, enduro's and cycling the col's in the alps without even tracking my time or distance in any of these events, nevermind the nice-to-knows such as cadence, power, HR and all that other stuff.  My reasoning was that after many years of learning my body and knowing my limits, I believed that I had learned the art of pacing myself in training and racing based on how I feel rather than what the numbers say.  This belief that "I know it all" was further bolstered every time that I didn't do too bad in races compared to friends that often did way more training hours.

 

and then...

 

Two years ago I moved away from all my riding mates, so I bought a Wahoo Kickr;  The reason wasn't primarily with power training in mind, but rather to "spice up" my indoor workouts, riding online against mates etc.  I never got the connection to Zwift or Virtual Training working (my laptop doesn't support the correct type of bluetooth and I never bothered to buy an ANT+ or Bluetooth dongle), and Kinomap was quite a let-down, so I ended up just riding self-made intervals while listening to music on the odd occasion that I used the indoor trainer.  End of last year, I really wondered how I was doing compared to past years as I prepped for 94.7.  I built up quite a number of mini "tests" over the years to see how I go, i.e. ride a timed run of the Suikerbosrand loop a few weeks prior to the race which would give me an idea of my form etc., but now living somewhere distant I didn't have any reference anymore.  That got me curious...  What are my power numbers, what intervals do I need to push to simulate the hard efforts along the M1, Jan Smuts, Witkoppen or Cedar road?

 

In my mind there was only one solution to this problem.  Get a PM and ride / race for a while without looking at the numbers, just download the files and use it for reference later.  I would then at least be able to measure my performance year-on-year so that I can compare the efforts I need to simulate during my Kickr workouts.  However, I could not justify to myself spending the ~R20k on a power meter and a gamin without the need to do some homework, hence I bought the bought the book that many folks have suggested in this thread: "training and racing with a power meter", and for someone who claimed to know something about structured and scientific training, I was quite surprised about what you can learn when looking at your power numbers and how to make those numbers work for you.

 

Essentially training has now become one big game of experiments and challenges rather than just the 4 - 8 mostly pleasurable hours that I routinely spent on my bike or in running shoes almost every week for the last 10 years.  Solo training rides are no longer just boring hours in the saddle and I can hardly wait to get home to check the numbers.  I'm no longer disappointed if I have a poor average speed on a windy day and the last 20km of my ride I'm already getting curious about my TSS scores, chronic training load and all those other nerdy stats that wait for me when I get home.

 

On the practical side, I used to hate riding into the wind, however now the treacherous drag back home against a head-wind became a game against the numbers and I'm almost excited to hit this stretch of road fighting to keep the power higher than last time.  Knowing my TSS scores for the week makes me feel good about going into a well-deserved rest day, where previously I used to feel guilty for slacking off...

 

Anyway, decide for yourself whether it is worthwhile because a PM is a lot of money no matter how you look at it or which model you buy, but at least try and read the book (even if you don't intend to buy a PM).  For someone that enjoys the nerdy side of life, the PM really makes a difference in my world and I have a revived excitement about the sport in general.

 

I'll check in at the end of the year to give an idea of how much the PM has improved my cycling.  My best pre-powermeter 94.7 was 2h47 from D, so let's see how 2017 goes!

Edited April 26, 2017 by awesme

[cadenceblur]

The Trainng Peaks basic subscription is just that - very basic - think the premium is R1800 for the year - way more than strava premium. Anyone using that? 

Also provides the power curve. There is also the plug in Strava tistic

[awesme]

I got TP Premium and I think it is worth the extra information, if you serious about training rather spend the money on TP Premium compared to Strava Premium.

 

TP is about training, Strava is about social, following your friends.

 

G

 

The Trainng Peaks basic subscription is just that - very basic - think the premium is R1800 for the year - way more than strava premium. Anyone using that? 

Also provides the power curve. There is also the plug in Strava tistic

[cadenceblur]

I got TP Premium and I think it is worth the extra information, if you serious about training rather spend the money on TP Premium compared to Strava Premium.

 

TP is about training, Strava is about social, following your friends.

 

G

would it sync all my previous data?

[awesme]

if I recall it can suck data out of strata.

 

But I'd rather say copy your fit files from your garmin and then simply drop that into TP.

 

What I have, for indoor TrainerRoad sends to both TrainerRoad, Strava and TP.

For outdoor My Garmin uploads to Connect, that then pushed the file to Strava and from there it goes to TP, or it might go straight to TP from Garmin, 

 

But basically indoor and outdoor rides all end in TP, for a single view of all training/riding done. I also copy the numbers into a PMC. for TrainerRoad I got my TSS from there, for outdoor riding once it gets into TP I get the TSS number from there.

 

G

 

would it sync all my previous data?

[cadenceblur]

Have you built your own PMC?

[cadenceblur]

Have you built your own PMC?

[awesme]

Yes, 

 

Not that difficult, especially if you have allot of rides with Power data already.

 

Send me a PM, will share the base spread sheet.

 

G

 

Have you built your own PMC?

[cadenceblur]

Cool. Will do. I have ALOT of rides

[Dicky DQ]

Hi Jan,

 

For a discipline which is as short, intermittent and high intensity, the workouts in peak season consist of very high intensity interval sessions. These will be scheduled 1-2 times each week depending on racing commitments.

 

Typical examples are:

 

6-8 repeats of 4min at 90% of HRR (heart rate reserve) with 2.5 minutes rest

 

40:20 intervals - 40s maximal sprints with 20s rest period x 6 sprint x 3 sets. 10min recovery between sets.

 

8 x 30s maximal effort sprints with 5min recovery 

 

1min maximal efforts with 2min recovery x 10 repeats x 2 sets with 10min recovery between sets.

Oi, don't confuse everyone now please ;-)

 

Guys are just trying to understand Watts and HR now you throw in HRR. Eish!

 

So if my math is correct with a resting HR of 50 and a max HR of 180 I would have the following:

90% of HR = 162bpm

90% of HRR = 167bpm

Is this correct?

[Veebee]

I got TP Premium and I think it is worth the extra information, if you serious about training rather spend the money on TP Premium compared to Strava Premium.

 

TP is about training, Strava is about social, following your friends.

 

G

Have you compared strava freshness / fitness curve to that of TP ? They would be in line if you have enough data on both. Maybe not the exact figures but you get to see when you fatigued/ fresh and that could be what some are looking for/ or need.

 

TP/ Wko4 is nice to have when you can understand how to use it.

[awesme]

Hi

 

To see Strava freshness / fitness you need premium, I don't, I understand Strava can give some values like TP, but as i say, it's "some" compared to single minded focus on power based training.

 

Whats additionally nice about TP is their ATP, where you can put in your races planned, the intended CTL and it will show you what TSS you need to do per week, to get there, you can then pick the workouts, be that a long slow ride for a large TSS or a short HARD killer to build the same TSS, how they do and what adaptations they promote/create is different of course.

 

G

 

Have you compared strava freshness / fitness curve to that of TP ? They would be in line if you have enough data on both. Maybe not the exact figures but you get to see when you fatigued/ fresh and that could be what some are looking for/ or need.

TP/ Wko4 is nice to have when you can understand how to use it.