NotSoBigBen Posted August 25, 2016 Share Speaking from personal experience with a talented youngster some years ago .... almost ALL sponsorship starts with knowing someone (normally a parent or family member who has the means or necessary influence) and is not related to actual performance on the bike (I know I know there are a few exceptions, very few!) Other than that you are just begging for the scraps I'm afraid, Patchelious I salute you my friend as that is the attitude that is required! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebel Posted August 25, 2016 Share It also depends on what the sponsors motives are. I sponsor a junior. Kit, Gear, helmets , Race entries, Flights for away races, Coaching Costs.... Now, my business would more than likely NEVER get business based on sponsoring this kid, but we as a business believe in helping this kid out as he has a great future. Thats our ethos. It is this view on life that we hope people pick up, and see us as partners in business ventures and not merely as suppliers. Selfless giving often has a greater return than can be measured. My advice is get hold of some seasoned Pro riders. The likes of Waylon, Darren Lill, Andrew Hill etc, they have been around the block and they will be more than willing to depart some info to you about how to go about it, what the challenges re and how to deal with them. As with every type of sale, you need to understand who you are pitching too and what it is that they want. There is no sense in selling yourself to a company like USN in the same way you would to somebody say in the Financial Services industries, they have different brand drives.... Wish there were more businessmen like you around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted August 25, 2016 Share Speaking from personal experience with a talented youngster some years ago .... almost ALL sponsorship starts with knowing someone (normally a parent or family member who has the means or necessary influence) and is not related to actual performance on the bike (I know I know there are a few exceptions, very few!) Other than that you are just begging for the scraps I'm afraid, Patchelious I salute you my friend as that is the attitude that is required! What Patch does not mention is this young guy has to sit on the front at the TOGH and DC and pull him around, thats got to be worth at least 15K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebel Posted August 25, 2016 Share Just an observation... I hear many people talking about the lack of development in the Downhill scene and the lack of numbers at races etc (Even having some cancelled due to lack of support). However there are very few people willing to put money into developing juniors (and Elites for that matter) Low numbers so low exposure but no funding and interest means no growth. Catch 22 and all that hey...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pe3nguin Posted August 25, 2016 Share What Patch does not mention is this young guy has to sit on the front at the TOGH and DC and pull him around, thats got to be worth at least 15K.That sounds like its worth a trip overseas. Send the kid to Europe Patchy one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted August 25, 2016 Share What Patch does not mention is this young guy has to sit on the front at the TOGH and DC and pull him around, thats got to be worth at least 15K.He wasnt at DC. ToGH was the first time I met him. Based on his work ethic, speed and postive attitude I offered him sponsorship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyone Posted August 25, 2016 Share Based on his work ethic, speed and postive attitude I offered him sponsorship... This is a VERY big part of it all as well IMHO, I have come across some guys with lots of talent and training etc but they have a k@k attitude and they think they are owed everything... Also I have noticed a big trend recently that a lot of the corporate's would rather sponsor their own race entries (Epic and the like) etc instead of someone who can actually place top 10 in a race like the Epic for example. When you approach them they say "sorry no money for sponsorship", but they will go and spend R100k plus in doing the Epic...? Yes its their prerogative to do with their cash as they please - I am just saying it as an observation. But at the end of the day, surely you (Patch) would feel proud if you can watch "your" youngster ride the TDF one day and say "I helped that kid get there" - that is literally all it takes, is for someone to believe in an athlete to make a world of difference... The recent doping scandals in SA (and in general) sadly do not help the situation either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted August 25, 2016 Share He wasnt at DC. ToGH was the first time I met him. Based on his work ethic, speed and postive attitude I offered him sponsorship... If my company thought that running was not the be all and end all, would tried the same!! Really impressive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted August 25, 2016 Share This is a VERY big part of it all as well IMHO, I have come across some guys with lots of talent and training etc but they have a k@k attitude and they think they are owed everything... Also I have noticed a big trend recently that a lot of the corporate's would rather sponsor their own race entries (Epic and the like) etc instead of someone who can actually place top 10 in a race like the Epic for example. When you approach them they say "sorry no money for sponsorship", but they will go and spend R100k plus in doing the Epic...? Yes its their prerogative to do with their cash as they please - I am just saying it as an observation. But at the end of the day, surely you (Patch) would feel proud if you can watch "your" youngster ride the TDF one day and say "I helped that kid get there" - that is literally all it takes, is for someone to believe in an athlete to make a world of difference... The recent doping scandals in SA (and in general) sadly do not help the situation either... Brand ambassador vs race winning athlete. While being a brand ambassador you can train to become a race winning athlete, very rarely the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted August 25, 2016 Share This is a VERY big part of it all as well IMHO, I have come across some guys with lots of talent and training etc but they have a k@k attitude and they think they are owed everything... Also I have noticed a big trend recently that a lot of the corporate's would rather sponsor their own race entries (Epic and the like) etc instead of someone who can actually place top 10 in a race like the Epic for example. When you approach them they say "sorry no money for sponsorship", but they will go and spend R100k plus in doing the Epic...? Yes its their prerogative to do with their cash as they please - I am just saying it as an observation. But at the end of the day, surely you (Patch) would feel proud if you can watch "your" youngster ride the TDF one day and say "I helped that kid get there" - that is literally all it takes, is for someone to believe in an athlete to make a world of difference... The recent doping scandals in SA (and in general) sadly do not help the situation either...It is literally the most important thing! On the race entries thing, its a two sided coin....If I was going to spend R100k of the business' money to do the Epic, I would most certainly take an exisitng or prospective client as my partner. Spending that kind of time, that same sense of purpose breaks down all barriers. So yes, I could pay R100k to get a top 10 finisher who wears my kit, but doing the ride/race with a DIRECT business interest trumps that business value by a long shot. Edit: When you start talking big bucks like that, shareholders want to understand the potential return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyone Posted August 25, 2016 Share I fully understand and appreciate that and that is why I said it as an observation, also like I said it IS fully up to the company as to where and how to spend their money so I fully appreciate them taking a potential partner/investor along (also just using the Epic as an example - there are other races). My moan (if you want to call it that) is that you perhaps are not asking huge money (less than R20k) and they give you that line...that becomes frustrating, and yes if you're asking for R100k+ then yes they 100% deserve to know how it is getting spent and their ROI/potential ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pe3nguin Posted August 25, 2016 Share You ask me for any money, R500 or R500 000, I'm gonna wanna know my potential return. You say not huge money (reference to R20k), but if big companies were in the habit of giving money away (regardless of quantum) and seeing little value in return, they wouldn't be big companies for long.On that note, BikeHub, spot me some cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyone Posted August 25, 2016 Share When I reference R20k as "little" money, I am putting it against a R2mil budget proposal for two athletes for 1 year only...That is what it costs to run a small (2 riders + 1 manager) semi-pro team these days, when I worked for Doug Ryder's Microsoft team in 2004/5 the team budget was around R2-3mil for 6 riders and a manager and mechanic. And yes any sponsor deserves to know how and where the ROI is I do not disagree and some are a lot stickier than others... Sponsorship in any form is advertising and as far as I aware (I stand to be corrected) advertising is tax deductible, so instead of paying for that homestead in KZN you could pay for a small team...(again I stand to be corrected on this statement - it is what I have been told by various bookkeepers/accountants) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted August 25, 2016 Share When I reference R20k as "little" money, I am putting it against a R2mil budget proposal for two athletes for 1 year only...That is what it costs to run a small (2 riders + 1 manager) semi-pro team these days, when I worked for Doug Ryder's Microsoft team in 2004/5 the team budget was around R2-3mil for 6 riders and a manager and mechanic. And yes any sponsor deserves to know how and where the ROI is I do not disagree and some are a lot stickier than others... Sponsorship in any form is advertising and as far as I aware (I stand to be corrected) advertising is tax deductible, so instead of paying for that homestead in KZN you could pay for a small team...(again I stand to be corrected on this statement - it is what I have been told by various bookkeepers/accountants) The cost to run the top few teams in SA today, is R4.5m to R6m per team depending on size, I have had discussions with some those sponsors. Now think about that in the current climate from a potential sponsors point of view, thats a lot of cash considering the cover that road racing gets these days. They literally only give that sponsorship because they have CEOs/EXCOs who are super passionate cyclists themselves. Maybe that is another good point for young guys..... Go look for the MAMIL Execs who LOVE riding, you will have far more success by befriending them than cold calling random sponsors.MAMIL execs love nothing more than being talent spotters... use that to your advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pe3nguin Posted August 25, 2016 Share Tax Can confirm: tax deductible, but even the tax shield doesnt mitigate the financial expense and impact on cash flow, which again needs to be assessed against any possible return on your investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyone Posted August 25, 2016 Share Absolutely to both points above, in many respects this is what many athletes (not just in cycling but in SA in general) are up against...general coverage for non-team sports (and even some team sports) is slim at the best of times. I am talking athletics, swimming and hockey etc - these sports take a hit in the long run because there is no potential sponsorship for an athlete to go to the next step i.e. get paid to run/swim/cycle full time so what happens? The athlete has to get a job and the country as a whole losses a potential world champ/Olympic champ. So I know someone who was high up in DSTV/Multichoice, we were chatting the one day about broadcast rights for events - to do the soccer or rugby they have to pay in the 10s of millions to broadcast per match, cycling not so much but its still a pretty penny. So what if (this is rhetorical) someone were to come to you and say I want R10mil - BUT in the proposal is a deal with Super Sport for coverage to the value of R5mil that would guarantee coverage of every event the team does plus adverts during said coverage? Similar to what Dimension Data have done...perhaps that is another angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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