2017 gut and distance

[ChrisF]

Dunno how to reply inline. Your MTB brake example is not really a great analogy... If you don't have sufficient background knowledge to separate BS from (plausible) truth, then you are in trouble...

 

.....

 

Would be interested to know what you tried unsuccessfully vs what worked for you. If you wouldn't mind sharing

 

As for having some basic knowledge - with an engineering background I did NOT have enough of a background to understand what I was reading, at least I did not understand the context of the advise given.  The more I learn, the easier it is becoming to find context for the advise given.  AND the more I begin to understand that most advise is "correct" - in the correct context .....  BUT, when taken out of context it can send you on a tail-spin ....

 

thus for me it really worked well to get a proper grounding from somebody that understands their business.

 

 

Trying stuff ....

the first few months was purely about "text book" eating, with LOTS of stuff cut out to keep the variables as low as possible, to really see the effects of the medicine and to determine what dosage I needed.

 

then as the weight loss kicked in, and my fitness improved (exercise has similar benefits to some of the meds, to some extent), the meds had to be adjusted again, and then again ...

 

Once the meds stabilised we started "testing the effect" of some fruit.  Knowing how my body reacts the other food groups, I could then have a specific portion size of lets say grapes, then take blood readings to see how these impacts on ME.  Nothing radical for me (thankfully), but apparently others have drastic reactions to certain fruit types ......

 

I have also "figured out" recently that eating too much potatoes puts me into a strange "spin" .... for the next two days I am "constantly hungry".  

[lechatnoir]

The food industry as a whole is rotten. Go and ask anyone from the ADSA who their sponsors are, which includes Kellogs, Nestle and Unilever. The SA heart and Stroke Foundation's main sponsor is a company that fabricates sunflower oil and margarine. Do you think they will give you credible information? 

 

The nutrition congress at which our dietary guidelines discussed and updated is sponsored by the South African Sugar Association, Kellogs, Unilever, GSK and a few other companies. Do you think those guidelines are a reflection of healthy eating or of what big corporates want us to eat?

 

https://therussells.crossfit.com/2017/01/05/big-food-vs-tim-noakes-the-final-crusade/

 

This article will shed some light on what I am trying to say. 

 

Peer-reviewed means f-all if there is money involved. Not saying dietitians don't know what they are doing, but it does help to do some of your own research before you go and see one. 

 

If you've listened to the Noakes podcast, he outlines the global ramifications of the hearing verdict. It's quite wide-reaching. Lots of money involved, so no wonder they want to appeal

[lechatnoir]

then as the weight loss kicked in, and my fitness improved (exercise has similar benefits to some of the meds, to some extent), the meds had to be adjusted again, and then again ...

 

 

May I ask what meds?

[Puncture Kid]

As for having some basic knowledge - with an engineering background I did NOT have enough of a background to understand what I was reading, at least I did not understand the context of the advise given.  The more I learn, the easier it is becoming to find context for the advise given.  AND the more I begin to understand that most advise is "correct" - in the correct context .....  BUT, when taken out of context it can send you on a tail-spin ....

 

thus for me it really worked well to get a proper grounding from somebody that understands their business.

 

 

Trying stuff ....

the first few months was purely about "text book" eating, with LOTS of stuff cut out to keep the variables as low as possible, to really see the effects of the medicine and to determine what dosage I needed.

 

then as the weight loss kicked in, and my fitness improved (exercise has similar benefits to some of the meds, to some extent), the meds had to be adjusted again, and then again ...

 

Once the meds stabilised we started "testing the effect" of some fruit.  Knowing how my body reacts the other food groups, I could then have a specific portion size of lets say grapes, then take blood readings to see how these impacts on ME.  Nothing radical for me (thankfully), but apparently others have drastic reactions to certain fruit types ......

 

I have also "figured out" recently that eating too much potatoes puts me into a strange "spin" .... for the next two days I am "constantly hungry".  

 

One of the biggest challenges is that there are so many variables. And for the most part, the effect is delayed. I.e. your body mostly (except diabetics etc of course) reacts slowly (days or weeks) to the change in diet. So it is very hard to isolate something. Adding meds to the mix makes it a lot harder.

 

Even though I love fruit, I have excluded those as well. Until I reach my target. Then I will have them in moderation. But potatoes is known for loads of carbs. Maybe your reaction is carb craving? It is a real thing. When I went from 'normal' eating (everything) to keto, I experienced the same. But it is a natural reaction to depleting carbs in your body.

[Fat Boab]

One of the biggest challenges is that there are so many variables..........So it is very hard to isolate something.

 

 

And that's the downside of non-peer reviewed group studies.....

[Puncture Kid]

And that's the downside of non-peer reviewed group studies.....

 

Peer review means nothing if the peers' knowledge and views are based on biased or tainted paradigms.

 

If a study does not fully publish the conditions/tests/raw test results/sample size of that study, then it is questionable at best. Industry-funded studies are not believable at all. But we would not always know.

 

Just in terms of nutrition, there are so many studies with contradictory conclusions that I am skeptical of most of them. Proves that peer review is not a measure of truth.

[Fat Boab]

.

 

Just in terms of nutrition, there are so many studies with contradictory conclusions that I am skeptical of most of them. Proves that peer review is not a measure of truth.

 

No it doesn't. It means that there is no scientific consensus. Peer review is on a singularity. Consensus is across several singularities. And none of these end-states are aimed at determining 'truth'; but rather at determining consensus at any point in time.

[Puncture Kid]

No it doesn't. It means that there is no scientific consensus. Peer review is on a singularity. Consensus is across several singularities. And none of these end-states are aimed at determining 'truth'; but rather at determining consensus at any point in time.

 

Surely one of the outcomes of the review process is to establish that claims and conclusions of a study are sound and at least plausible? Even if the claims may seem 'out there'. If the review is biased, then it is useless.

 

But maybe we should not be polluting this thread...

[ChrisF]

The fat in Avo should also be fine for you? And nuts? Salmon? I suspect that all these would be OK for you. And they do add flavour.

 

Is all animal fat a no-no for you?

Avo - Yes

Nuts - yes  (also one of the most convenient foods to keep as a backup in my laptop bag if a meeting runs late)

Fish - YES !  (I really should include more fish in my intake...)

 

 

animal fat .... type and quantity thing.  Also how the food is prepared - if the meat soaks in its own fat, then the food is saturated in the fat.  So used to low-fat now that these foods dont taste nice any more.  This is certainly THEE main arena of food-fights between the different camps in the food game ....

 

Fortunately low fat works for us.  I was never a lover of real fatty foods, and after my gall blader was removed my stomach really did not like high fat foods ..... so I get to watch the LF vs HF fight from the side 

[mrcg]

If I may add here....and this is not scientific but what I deem common-sense in general:

a. a pro MTB knows his stuff better because he is faster - does he have all the answers? Probably not. But he is faster for a majority of reasons. That's easy to tell.

b. a good pilot takes off smoothly, flies you from A to B and lands you smoothly and safely again. Is he a good pilot? You will never know until the S%$t hits the fan and he/she saves your bacon.

c. a good dietician helps you with correct meal plans - Is he/she a good dietician? You will never know until you understand their own "learned truth" and thus "tainted" advice....and see the evidence on your health.

 

My point is, even Noakes started out advocating carbs etc. Eventually he "saw" the light and adjusted his dogma. What is the final truth? Is there such a thing?

 

In brief, my own "belief" has much sympathy for the fact that we as humans have been around for a short period of time on this planet - but for 95% of that time we ate "natural foods". Not packaged, enhanced, added with additives we can't spell or understand and high levels of sugar and salt etc. as we have been for the last +-60/70 years. The majority of people back then were not really healthy mainly due to hygiene and disease, but the majority were surely not overweight or obese as is the current state of affairs in most countries. Food = big business! 

If you understand that, then you will understand what you are shovelling in your mouth. They fuel addictions. Cravings = addictions (mostly - unless you crave spinach like me).

My suggestion: read Robb Wolf (Wired to Eat) - if not only for interest (research). I'm not saying this is the be-all and end-all. But as added input and "a" different way.

Good luck all with your own journey

[Puncture Kid]

If I may add here....and this is not scientific but what I deem common-sense in general:

a. a pro MTB knows his stuff better because he is faster - does he have all the answers? Probably not. But he is faster for a majority of reasons. That's easy to tell.

b. a good pilot takes off smoothly, flies you from A to B and lands you smoothly and safely again. Is he a good pilot? You will never know until the S%$t hits the fan and he/she saves your bacon.

c. a good dietician helps you with correct meal plans - Is he/she a good dietician? You will never know until you understand their own "learned truth" and thus "tainted" advice....and see the evidence on your health.

 

My point is, even Noakes started out advocating carbs etc. Eventually he "saw" the light and adjusted his dogma. What is the final truth? Is there such a thing?

 

In brief, my own "belief" has much sympathy for the fact that we as humans have been around for a short period of time on this planet - but for 95% of that time we ate "natural foods". Not packaged, enhanced, added with additives we can't spell or understand and high levels of sugar and salt etc. as we have been for the last +-60/70 years. The majority of people back then were not really healthy mainly due to hygiene and disease, but the majority were surely not overweight or obese as is the current state of affairs in most countries. Food = big business! 

If you understand that, then you will understand what you are shovelling in your mouth. They fuel addictions. Cravings = addictions (mostly - unless you crave spinach like me).

My suggestion: read Robb Wolf (Wired to Eat) - if not only for interest (research). I'm not saying this is the be-all and end-all. But as added input and "a" different way.

Good luck all with your own journey

 

Agreed. Noakes has taken a lot of flack for 'changing his mind'. But personally I'd rather a scientist/researcher admit a mistake and share a more up to date/better informed finding than just burying it. The fact is that as much as we know about the human body, we still know very little. And our understanding improves over time. Especially when it comes to the role of individuals and your genetics playing a large role in all this. So health practitioners (including all other scientists) needs to be up to date in their knowledge or at least open minded before giving advice.

 

Avo - Yes

Nuts - yes  (also one of the most convenient foods to keep as a backup in my laptop bag if a meeting runs late)

Fish - YES !  (I really should include more fish in my intake...)

 

 

animal fat .... type and quantity thing.  Also how the food is prepared - if the meat soaks in its own fat, then the food is saturated in the fat.  So used to low-fat now that these foods dont taste nice any more.  This is certainly THEE main arena of food-fights between the different camps in the food game ....

 

Fortunately low fat works for us.  I was never a lover of real fatty foods, and after my gall blader was removed my stomach really did not like high fat foods ..... so I get to watch the LF vs HF fight from the side 

 

High-fat does not necessarily mean fatty/oily. I like to use sesame oil as it contains omega-3. Also use chourizo in a pan. It brings out some of the oils so you don't need to add more when cooking. And it adds great spiciness. Also use coconut oil when cooking

[Fat Boab]

Surely one of the outcomes of the review process is to establish that claims and conclusions of a study are sound and at least plausible? Even if the claims may seem 'out there'. If the review is biased, then it is useless.

 

But maybe we should not be polluting this thread...

 

Probably very wise to stop 'polluting' further. I can only imagine the potential flat spin that Isetech may be in with the various side-shows on offer. 

[eccc whippet]

wow... i  dont have time this morning to read through all the replies from yesterday...i will do it tonight....

 

last night  i felt like death warmed up so i went to bed early...feeling much better this morning...i believe it might have been a 24 hr bug which knocked me for a 6 yesterday...massive headache all day and feeling really shyte...wife was off work the day before for the same thing.

 

coffee might have some good things about it...but everything in moderation...i wasnt drinking coffee in moderation...just gona take a break from coffee for a couple days...which cuts back around 10 spoons of sugar a day.

 

got up this morning feeling much better...had a glass of water and finished the last bowl of cereal and yogurt...will try jungle oats from tomorrow.

 

my main focus should be on eating the correct food...as you can see by the discussions about which is the correct food to eat...it is not an easy task...i have spoken to some of the faster cyclist and response varies...some are banting and carb up before races...others still use the tradition method...so i dont believe there is a hard and fast rule that if you do either or it will make you faster or thinner...it which one you apply your mind to ...will present the results.

 

I have achieved ever goal i set out to achieve...from dropping below to 100 kg (99.8 kg again today) ridden up ever hill i have had to walk up...the hill to hill back to back (didnt think i could do it...but did) etc etc ...ok i missed the 3.30 shova by 6 minutes...i should have put in a little more effort with the training....the only fail so far...finding the right eating plan to suit my body....when i get this right the sky is the limit....and  cut out the stress eating and on the  road meals...the only way is to get my mind right...water with a tot of lemon is packed.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

It may have been dehydration as a result of the increased coffee intake. It is a diuretic, after all. Also could have been a caffeine headache (linked to dehydration as well) or just your body reacting to something different. 

 

10 spoons of sugar is a LOT! That's 200kcal just by itself. Cutting the sugar back even to 1 per mug will have a marked change in how much you consume. Add the milk to that (if you have milky coffee) and it'll be quite easy to get to 500kcal just on coffee alone, if you're having 5 cups a day. 

 

Keep at it, Ian. You're doing well now. 

[eccc whippet]

Get a sodastream... best. thing. ever....

had one threw it away a couple years ago.

[eccc whippet]

I have to pat myself on the back today...no coffee...no fizzy drinks....only water with a tot of lemon.

 

i didnt pack lunch today so i thought i would just pop into a spar and grab something healthy to eat...now i know why i have a weight problem...2 shops later i managed to find some biltong with no fat R20 barely a handful and almonds R30..still have 3/4 packet to munch on for another 2 days...i also found a "make up your own salad  R45 " spot...selected wisely and made a good healthy mix...R 95 later i walked out with my lunch...thank goodness i didnt have to get robbed R10 for a "440 ml" (no more 500 ml) coke zero....that was a saving...unfortunately i cant afford to eat like that every day...i am use to a loaf of bread R13 and a tin of tuna for R12...lunch for the whole family.

 

so we need some suggestions for cheap healthy lunches which are easy to eat on the go. 

 

for tomorrow...i have some fruit...a beans mix and a salad with a few almonds which i will chop up  in the salad.