How to stop the Cycling Carnage on SA's roads?

[Tatt]

Are you saying that if all cyclist obey all the traffic rules drivers of cars will stop using their phones, stop drunk driving and stop overtaking on blind rises and when its not safe to do so?

 

Not at all. Read the post I was replying to...

['Dale]

So true...

 

The older generation showing the youngsters how to go through red robots today...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aaq8_W3Ko0

 

And owning the entire road..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7azmzZR-CLQ

 

We should get our own house in order first!

 

Tom

That is a separate matter, Tom

 

Important no doubt

[carbon29er]

Snip

 

 

 

We should get our own house in order first!

 

Tom

Rubbish. A motorist has no right to endanger my life by passing too closely to me. Regardless of whether I jump red lights or not. Which I don't.

 

But this victim blaming and "get our own house in order" as justification for motorists driving badly and endangering cyclists is just so annoying and counter productive.

 

I could post an hour of video a day of drivers driving illegally.

[Patchelicious]

We should ALSO get our house in order is maybe more appropriate.

 

It's not victim blaming. It's taking responsibility for our behavior.

 

There is nothing wrong with cyclists acting like responsible humans.

 

Of course motorist must change their behavior, absolutely. But that doesn't give us the right to abuse the road rules.

 

EVERYBODY must respect each other and the rules of the road.

[Patchelicious]

Are you saying that if all cyclist obey all the traffic rules drivers of cars will stop using their phones, stop drunk driving and stop overtaking on blind rises and when its not safe to do so?

I've read his post several times, just to make sure I was not missing something. I'm pretty certain this is NOT what he was saying.

[Pure Savage]

I've read his post several times, just to make sure I was not missing something. I'm pretty certain this is NOT what he was saying.

I don't think he understands who causes the carnage on the roads though.

 

By being the change you want to see is nice in theory, in the real world the people that cause the carnage won't change their behavior because a cyclist stops at a red light. The average driver will respect cyclists more and remove the stigma around cyclists owning the road. I am not saying do what you want on the roads.

 

It won't stop drunk drivers causing carnage on roads or idiots on phones or old ladies not physically being able to see you or trucks clipping you as they not watching.

 

Let's keep the topic to stopping the carnage on the roads please.

 

 

 

 

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[Tatt]

Rubbish. A motorist has no right to endanger my life by passing too closely to me. Regardless of whether I jump red lights or not. Which I don't.

 

But this victim blaming and "get our own house in order" as justification for motorists driving badly and endangering cyclists is just so annoying and counter productive.

 

I could post an hour of video a day of drivers driving illegally.

 

And you also didn't read the post I was referring to... 

 

None of the cyclists (or drivers if you go to my YouTube page) I post are 'victims' - they are all Darwin Award candidates who are clearly endangering other road users (or themselves).

 

I am incredibly saddened by the loss of life that is reported on this forum on a weekly basis, and the impact that it has on the families and cycling community. For me, the carnage along with filming what we do as cyclists/drivers has been an eye opener and completely changed my approach; whether I am on my bicycle or in my van.

 

Tom

[Patchelicious]

I don't think he understands who causes the carnage on the roads though.

 

By being the change you want to see is nice in theory, in the real world the people that cause the carnage won't change their behavior because a cyclist stops at a red light. The average driver will respect cyclists more and remove the stigma around cyclists owning the road. I am not saying do what you want on the roads.

 

It won't stop drunk drivers causing carnage on roads or idiots on phones or old ladies not physically being able to see you or trucks clipping you as they not watching.

 

Let's keep the topic to stopping the carnage on the roads please.

 

 

 

 

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You behavior as a cyclist IS part of the topic.

 

The topic is "How to stop the cycling carnage".

 

There is not a singular answer. We have said multiple times that it is a multi tiered issue that needs to be addressed from multiple sides SiMULTANOUSLY.

 

Drunk driving is not the sole cause of road deaths. We need to stop only looking at through the key hole that supports our individual views.

 

Being a responsible cyclist and being a respectful road user is not the only solution to the problem by no means, but it's most definitely one of the many many many solutions.

 

The reason why it's important for us to acknowledge is that when it comes to actionable solutions, it's one that we can influence pretty easily, YOU can action it tomorrow. You don't need to wait for somebody else to do it for you.

 

We need to lobby to get harsher laws passed. This will take time, but it will have high impact.

We need to get more cycling lanes. This will take time.

We need to drive educational campaigns in schools and driving school. This will take even more time to be effective but the results will be long lasting.

We need to pressure the bodies (CSA and PPA) to use their influences and membership numbers to drive change.

We need use these same guys to pressure the Government agencies to enforce the laws more effectively.

We need to create mutual respect between road users.

 

Pull your fingers out your ears and listen to what the motorist complain about, it's about our behavior. It is their single biggest gripe. Why can't we change that? Why not??? Are we really going to sit here and be so arrogant as to say that we will not take responsibility for our behavior but we demand all these other things?

 

You can make a positive contribution tomorrow by not jumping red robots, thanking motorist for giving you space, not unnecessarily blocking traffic ( go read the BDF pledge) will the impact be huge, maybe not but it positively adds to the solution it doesn't add to the problem.

[carbon29er]

Snip

Pull your fingers out your ears and listen to what the motorist complain about, it's about our behavior. It is their single biggest gripe.

Snip

 

You can make a positive contribution tomorrow by not jumping red robots, thanking motorist for giving you space, not unnecessarily blocking traffic ( go read the BDF pledge) will the impact be huge, maybe not but it positively adds to the solution it doesn't add to the problem.

 

 

I refuse to believe that is it justified for a motorist to knock a cyclist off a bike by passing too closely or endanger another human being while driving just because that human being broke a rule which affected no one but themselves.

 

I accept motorists get pissed off when a cyclist rolls through a red light safely or when they have to sit behind a bunch of cyclists riding 2 abreast. But does it justify them driving into a cyclist?

 

My views on single file are not a secret, far too often I have seen a motorist attempt to overtake 15 riders riding in single file to realise it is too long a line and pulls in midway. right into the group. 2 abreast this group would be half the length. Which is safer? I know the law. It's the ONLY law motorists care about, seemingly. And use it endlessly to justify their lack of tolerance.

 

Even riding with self preservation uppermost in my thoughts and being law abiding and considerate I get buzzed, hooted at and intimidated by motorists. At least once every 30kms cycled.

 

Yes Patch, every sector of society can improve their behaviour, cyclists too. But the minor infractions of rolling through an intersection safely and riding next to your mate on a deserted road DO NOT justify the carnage on our roads.

 

I cross 2 pedestrian crossings in Hout Bay daily. It's normally the 3rd driver that stops to let the pedestrian cross legally on the stripes. Despite me stopping and waiting in the other direction. What justifies this? A pedestrian jaywalking further up the road?

 

A proper gap between motorists and bicycle riders is the ONLY way the slaying of bicycle riders by motorists will cease. Be it cycle paths or a passing law.

[Danilo]

PS1059.jpg

 

I refuse to believe that is it justified for a motorist to knock a cyclist off a bike by passing too closely or endanger another human being while driving just because that human being broke a rule which affected no one but themselves.

 

I accept motorists get pissed off when a cyclist rolls through a red light safely or when they have to sit behind a bunch of cyclists riding 2 abreast. But does it justify them driving into a cyclist?

 

My views on single file are not a secret, far too often I have seen a motorist attempt to overtake 15 riders riding in single file to realise it is too long a line and pulls in midway. right into the group. 2 abreast this group would be half the length. Which is safer? I know the law. It's the ONLY law motorists care about, seemingly. And use it endlessly to justify their lack of tolerance.

 

Even riding with self preservation uppermost in my thoughts and being law abiding and considerate I get buzzed, hooted at and intimidated by motorists. At least once every 30kms cycled.

 

Yes Patch, every sector of society can improve their behaviour, cyclists too. But the minor infractions of rolling through an intersection safely and riding next to your mate on a deserted road DO NOT justify the carnage on our roads.

 

I cross 2 pedestrian crossings in Hout Bay daily. It's normally the 3rd driver that stops to let the pedestrian cross legally on the stripes. Despite me stopping and waiting in the other direction. What justifies this? A pedestrian jaywalking further up the road?

 

A proper gap between motorists and bicycle riders is the ONLY way the slaying of bicycle riders by motorists will cease. Be it cycle paths or a passing law.

Based on this logic, laws can be thrown out the window where all road users are concerned then. Examples of "minor infringements" mentioned for both cars and cyclists gives one the sense that any law is futile if not followed ...

 

 

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[eccc whippet]

just an idea...start a thread which highlights accidents...the cause of the accident and how to prevent them.

 

for example accident...

 

cyclist using lights...yes 

cyclist hit while jumping a red light...no
cyclist hit from behind...yes

cyclist hit in the yellow line when hit...yes

cyclist hit from vehicle turning in front of him as the vehicle passed...yes

cyclist hit  by drunk or texting at the time of accident...yes

cyclist side swiped by impatient motorist taking and off ramp or turning into a driveway...yes 

did cyclist thank the motorist for their patients while out riding...yes (but still hit by another impatient driver) 

did cyclist slow down look left and right before proceeding through a red light as taught (why because we are not as dumb as people think)...yes

was there an alternate cycle friendly lane to use...but the idiot riding his bicycle chose to be arrogant and use the public road...no

are the cycle lane clear of rubbish...glass...bush and trees...no (which means the cyclist must ride in the road) 

are the cycle lanes clear of hoards of runners using the cycle lanes...no

 

 

you get the idea...this way we can see a trend of accident and find ways to reduce the carnage.

[eccc whippet]

this is what i did...put the question out to all my "friends" on face book.

 

" a question to people who drive motor vehicles on the road...What can i do to make it safer to ride my bicycle on the road? " 

[Phatman]

PS1059.jpg

 

I refuse to believe that is it justified for a motorist to knock a cyclist off a bike by passing too closely or endanger another human being while driving just because that human being broke a rule which affected no one but themselves.

 

I accept motorists get pissed off when a cyclist rolls through a red light safely or when they have to sit behind a bunch of cyclists riding 2 abreast. But does it justify them driving into a cyclist?

 

My views on single file are not a secret, far too often I have seen a motorist attempt to overtake 15 riders riding in single file to realise it is too long a line and pulls in midway. right into the group. 2 abreast this group would be half the length. Which is safer? I know the law. It's the ONLY law motorists care about, seemingly. And use it endlessly to justify their lack of tolerance.

 

Even riding with self preservation uppermost in my thoughts and being law abiding and considerate I get buzzed, hooted at and intimidated by motorists. At least once every 30kms cycled.

 

Yes Patch, every sector of society can improve their behaviour, cyclists too. But the minor infractions of rolling through an intersection safely and riding next to your mate on a deserted road DO NOT justify the carnage on our roads.

 

I cross 2 pedestrian crossings in Hout Bay daily. It's normally the 3rd driver that stops to let the pedestrian cross legally on the stripes. Despite me stopping and waiting in the other direction. What justifies this? A pedestrian jaywalking further up the road?

 

A proper gap between motorists and bicycle riders is the ONLY way the slaying of bicycle riders by motorists will cease. Be it cycle paths or a passing law.

There may be a big difference between what you, me and Joe Soap perceive to be minor infringements. I'm driving down a deserted road, what's the harm in taking a quick glance at my phone to see who sent that message? Joe is approaching an intersection on said deserted road, sees only my car approaching and rolls through because there's sufficient space for him to turn safely if he doesn't stop. I drift into the oncoming lane while checking my phone, Joe swerves to avoid me, looks in the mirror and shakes his head at my stupidity, and doesn't see the cyclists riding 2 abreast cresting the hill. They're chatting, don't notice the danger in time, and we know the rest.

Why call "rubbish" on Tatt's post because you don't agree? Look at the videos he posted with his comment, I think his comment was valid. I understand that you feel strongly about this issue, and you've done more than many of us in your pursuit of cyclist safety, and for that I thank you. But rubbishing others' opinions if they differ with yours isn't conducive to finding solutions.

[Fat Boab]

this is what i did...put the question out to all my "friends" on face book.

 

" a question to people who drive motor vehicles on the road...What can i do to make it safer to ride my bicycle on the road? " 

 

How about a follow-up question? What can you do to make it safer for me to ride my bicycle on the road?

[coppi]

just an idea...start a thread which highlights accidents...the cause of the accident and how to prevent them.

 

for example accident...

 

cyclist using lights...yes 

cyclist hit while jumping a red light...no

cyclist hit from behind...yes

 

That is the biggest problem right there.............

[MTBeer]

I believe people who cycle like knobs probably drive like knobs too. So yes, they are part of the problem.