How to stop the Cycling Carnage on SA's roads?

[Reinhardt89]

Anyone got any good ideas?

 

I'm looking to see why/how road cycling is so safe here in Spain. What are the differences etc.

When I have some useful info I will pass it on.

 

Bonus.

The biggest difference is we are aggressive drivers. Everyone, we cyclists included. We believe the road belongs to us and us alone, we get irritated at slower drivers, we shout when a pedestrian crosses the road, even though they are wrong, we could have simply slowed down. That's my take on it.

[Bateleur1]

The biggest difference is we are aggressive drivers. Everyone, we cyclists included. We believe the road belongs to us and us alone, we get irritated at slower drivers, we shout when a pedestrian crosses the road, even though they are wrong, we could have simply slowed down. That's my take on it.

 

Agree that all road users are way too aggresive in general.

[love2fly]

This post is in two parts:

1. The Cause - In my humble opinion.....

The issue is that far too many (thank God still a minority but probably growing on a daily basis) motorists just don't give a damn.

They see other motorists as the "enemy" competing for that square of freeway lane or passage through the robot etc. Taxis do exactly what they want and motorists see that and decide on the basis of "if they can do it so can I", they join on.

I spend 3 hours a day in a car and see: BLATANT shooting of red robots, use of oncoming lane in the face of oncoming traffic in suburbs to jump the queue, M1 and other freeways drivers use of emergency lane, again to jump queue.4 way stop, 2 cars go instead of just one...it is mindblowing.

And what does JMPD do? NOTHING!

I was told a while ago that at least one senior JMPD official owned a fleet of taxis so now we know why they turn a blind eye.

The issue is rooted deeply into society and I truly believe it is linked to the plundering and pillaging at the uppermost levels of this country (read government)......When many of the Joe Citezens see blatant disregard for rule of law, they believe they can join the party and other laws such as the Rule Of The Road/Road traffic Act begin to be flouted on a more regular basis. This is very close to the Broken Window Theory....

The plundering is getting worse and so is the non-obeyance of traffic laws. I think that too many motorists see cyclists as a lesser status being who should not be on the road but rather the pavement and you then have a recipe for carnage - as evidenced in just the last few weeks.

 

2. Solution

The corruption and plunderage issues need to be tackled via a "longer game" and law enforcement needs to do its job, also via the longer game but with some tactical actions that could start immediately.

Now and then they have so called clampdowns on taxis but what they REALLY need to be doing is clamping down on the individual incidents. How do you eat a Jumbo Jet? One bite at a time!

 

I speak for JHB as that is where I live, but this could be rolled out into other Metro's - We need to meet with the senior role players i.e. DA and JMPD and initiate a discussion around a coherent plan on how to start chipping away at this problem.

We will not solve it overnight, and tragically more of us will get hit by imbecile drivers (it happened to me last August).

 

 

Some suggestions:

• What needs to happen is that both the thieves plundering state resources as well as the driver shooting a red robot need to know that there is a high probability that they will not only be caught, but prosecuted and punished also! (Bring in special courts like we had in the past?).
• Permanent cameras in areas where taxis flout emergency lanes, turning lanes and drive on the verge, as well as at intersections where they and cars skip the turning lane and go on straight to cut through. Cameras should not just be used for speeding and revenue.
• JMPD officers should be deployed in such a way that they police the prioritous traffic offences and be performance managed just like any regular employee - and this includes putting a stop to seeing 3-4 officers slouching in one car (needless to say the likes of SAMWU would need to be brought on side, and if appraoched correctly this could be done - chatted to them before..)

This is just a start and too much verbage but I am now at the end of my rope regarding cyclists being killed.

If you have ever been to Europe, especially Holland and its neighbours you will know what rights their cyclists carry.....

T

 

[Frosty]

Where was this G?

Brackendowns

[Frosty]

This post is in two parts:

1. The Cause - In my humble opinion.....

The issue is that far too many (thank God still a minority but probably growing on a daily basis) motorists just don't give a damn.

They see other motorists as the "enemy" competing for that square of freeway lane or passage through the robot etc. Taxis do exactly what they want and motorists see that and decide on the basis of "if they can do it so can I", they join on.

I spend 3 hours a day in a car and see: BLATANT shooting of red robots, use of oncoming lane in the face of oncoming traffic in suburbs to jump the queue, M1 and other freeways drivers use of emergency lane, again to jump queue.4 way stop, 2 cars go instead of just one...it is mindblowing.

And what does JMPD do? NOTHING!

I was told a while ago that at least one senior JMPD official owned a fleet of taxis so now we know why they turn a blind eye.

The issue is rooted deeply into society and I truly believe it is linked to the plundering and pillaging at the uppermost levels of this country (read government)......When many of the Joe Citezens see blatant disregard for rule of law, they believe they can join the party and other laws such as the Rule Of The Road/Road traffic Act begin to be flouted on a more regular basis. This is very close to the Broken Window Theory....

The plundering is getting worse and so is the non-obeyance of traffic laws. I think that too many motorists see cyclists as a lesser status being who should not be on the road but rather the pavement and you then have a recipe for carnage - as evidenced in just the last few weeks.

 

2. Solution

The corruption and plunderage issues need to be tackled via a "longer game" and law enforcement needs to do its job, also via the longer game but with some tactical actions that could start immediately.

Now and then they have so called clampdowns on taxis but what they REALLY need to be doing is clamping down on the individual incidents. How do you eat a Jumbo Jet? One bite at a time!

 

I speak for JHB as that is where I live, but this could be rolled out into other Metro's - We need to meet with the senior role players i.e. DA and JMPD and initiate a discussion around a coherent plan on how to start chipping away at this problem.

We will not solve it overnight, and tragically more of us will get hit by imbecile drivers (it happened to me last August).

 

 

Some suggestions:

• What needs to happen is that both the thieves plundering state resources as well as the driver shooting a red robot need to know that there is a high probability that they will not only be caught, but prosecuted and punished also! (Bring in special courts like we had in the past?).
• Permanent cameras in areas where taxis flout emergency lanes, turning lanes and drive on the verge, as well as at intersections where they and cars skip the turning lane and go on straight to cut through. Cameras should not just be used for speeding and revenue.
• JMPD officers should be deployed in such a way that they police the prioritous traffic offences and be performance managed just like any regular employee - and this includes putting a stop to seeing 3-4 officers slouching in one car (needless to say the likes of SAMWU would need to be brought on side, and if appraoched correctly this could be done - chatted to them before..)

This is just a start and too much verbage but I am now at the end of my rope regarding cyclists being killed.

If you have ever been to Europe, especially Holland and its neighbours you will know what rights their cyclists carry.....

T

To add to your comments:

 

Corruption is a big player, and anyone willing to offer/accept a bribe is guilty of this, not only the officials/government. Perhaps the traffic officials need to work on a commission/incentive basis, where they get a cut of the fine imposed. This would eliminate their need to want instant cash. It's an idea, and I'm sure there will be people that think it will be an opportunity for the traffic officials to find anything and everything wrong with your car/driving behaviour. 

 

Harsher penalties for certain offences, i.e. drunk driving, mobile phone use, negligent driving (driving into oncoming traffic). And this needs to be a significant amount, and/or time in the tjoekie. It will hopefully discourage the person from even contemplating it.

 

Since I got the DQ tracking device from Discovery, my driving has been transformed - I no longer exceed the speed limit anywhere. I feel sorry for anyone driving behind me, in a rush. I don't use my phone at all, unless it's an incoming call through the bluetooth system.

 

IMO, if someone wants to use their mobile phone while driving, then they have no intention of driving but rather intent on committing serious damage (to property, or life).

 

 

I have a long list of suggestions, but it's home time. Perhaps I'll edit more another day.

[Duane_Bosch]

IMO, if someone wants to use their mobile phone while driving, then they have no intention of driving but rather intent on committing serious damage (to property, or life).

 

 

I have a long list of suggestions, but it's home time. Perhaps I'll edit more another day.

Yesterday I took my motorbike in to work. On the way home the traffic into Hout Bay was terrible. I think road construction and SONA were the main contributors.

 

Anyways.

 

The amount of drivers I saw who WERE NOT EVEN REMOTELY LOOKING EVEN IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE ROAD was astounding!!!!!

[kosmonooit]

The biggest difference is we are aggressive drivers. Everyone, we cyclists included. We believe the road belongs to us and us alone, we get irritated at slower drivers, we shout when a pedestrian crosses the road, even though they are wrong, we could have simply slowed down. That's my take on it.

 

Its about the prevailing driving culture - the agro, the selfishness, the never-mind-the-red traffic light / stop street, its all about me, etc is infectious, as one person doe it,others follow and that becomes the norm, across racial and gender barriers it should be said.

 

I have written about the concept of  giving way (or lack thereof) elsewhere here, and this i relevant once again in terms of the question posed here: what can we do to improve our lot on the roads?. But try this: give way the next time some needs to change lanes or cross the road in front of you. That will encourage others to do the same, and its important it gets acknowledged. What I am saying is that the converse of the previous chapter is true, good vibes flow and permeate just as bad ones do.

 

I spend a fair amount of time in the Philippines, seen this in action many times and it took some getting used to: for example to cross a very busy main road that is chock ablock bumper to bumper with slowly chugging jeepneys, trikes and bikes, you can sit and wait forever on the wrong side side. But nudge forward a bit, and the traffic stops to let you through, like Moses & the Red Sea...  try do that to cross Louis Botha  here - certain death!

[Reinhardt89]

Its about the prevailing driving culture - the agro, the selfishness, the never-mind-the-red traffic light / stop street, its all about me, etc is infectious, as one person doe it,others follow and that becomes the norm, across racial and gender barriers it should be said.

 

I have written about the concept of  giving way (or lack thereof) elsewhere here, and this i relevant once again in terms of the question posed here: what can we do to improve our lot on the roads?. But try this: give way the next time some needs to change lanes or cross the road in front of you. That will encourage others to do the same, and its important it gets acknowledged. What I am saying is that the converse of the previous chapter is true, good vibes flow and permeate just as bad ones do.

 

I spend a fair amount of time in the Philippines, seen this in action many times and it took some getting used to: for example to cross a very busy main road that is chock ablock bumper to bumper with slowly chugging jeepneys, trikes and bikes, you can sit and wait forever on the wrong side side. But nudge forward a bit, and the traffic stops to let you through, like Moses & the Red Sea...  try do that to cross Louis Botha  here - certain death!

Agreed! I've waited many a time when there was a group of cyclists ahead of me, making it almost impossible for me to pass. But what happens? The guy behind me just gets irritated and speeds past me, the cyclists, and then narrowly dodges oncomming traffic. But I will continue to give way and be a patient driver.

[Patchelicious]

Agreed! I've waited many a time when there was a group of cyclists ahead of me, making it almost impossible for me to pass. But what happens? The guy behind me just gets irritated and speeds past me, the cyclists, and then narrowly dodges oncomming traffic. But I will continue to give way and be a patient driver.

World needs more YOUs

[Allrounder]

I believe this is a good start. 

 

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/passing-judgement-bringing-bad-drivers-book-310927?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social 

[Bateleur1]

I believe this is a good start. 

 

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/passing-judgement-bringing-bad-drivers-book-310927?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social 

 

Brilliant!!!     

 

This is what we need.  Brings us back to getting the authorities in to do something.

 

Loved the statement of offering the driver the choice of educational input or prosecution.

[Serious Panda]

SA roads is some of the most dangerous in the world and it will stay this way for the foreseeable future. Only 1 way to make it safe is to take personal responsibility and try to stay of the roads.

[Patchelicious]

SA roads is some of the most dangerous in the world and it will stay this way for the foreseeable future. Only 1 way to make it safe is to take personal responsibility and try to stay of the roads.

On which studies do you base this statement?

[Pure Savage]

SA roads is some of the most dangerous in the world and it will stay this way for the foreseeable future. Only 1 way to make it safe is to take personal responsibility and try to stay of the roads.

 

Lucky you are not the chief of police.

 

SA is most dangerous country in the world. Only one way to stay safe, stay inside, never go outside and hope they dont break in.

[Tatt]

"...To obey the rules of the road as far as it is practically possible in any given circumstance." - BDF

 

Be the change you want to see. It's such a cliché, but it starts with each of us, both as cyclists and drivers. I'm sure many of us have ridden 2 abreast, spoken on my phone while driving etc (including myself). But if we each resolve to follow the rules, on two wheels or four, we may make an impression on one other person at least. It's not much, but it's a start. And it's never too late to start.

 

So true...

 

The older generation showing the youngsters how to go through red robots today...

 

 

And owning the entire road..

 

 

We should get our own house in order first!

 

Tom

[Pure Savage]

So true...

 

The older generation showing the youngsters how to go through red robots today...

 

 

And owning the entire road..

 

 

We should get our own house in order first!

 

Tom

Are you saying that if all cyclist obey all the traffic rules drivers of cars will stop using their phones, stop drunk driving and stop overtaking on blind rises and when its not safe to do so?