Schnavel Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 According to Shimano's spec sheet the 10 speed RDs (including XTR M986 GS/SGS) are designed for a maximum cog size of 36T. You can get it to run on bigger cogs by turning in the B screw but then the clearance from top jockey wheel to cogs in the smaller sizes gets large and shifting would be slow and sloppy. The 11 speed Shimano RDs including XTR, XT and SLX are all designed to accomodate the 11-46 cassette as standard. They have a steeper slope on their shift ramp which keeps the top pulley closer to the cogs through the whole range. I have since changed my old 1x10 back to 2x10 on another bike and it runs perfectly again. Converted 10 speed 1x systems can be reliable but shift quality is definitely affected. I have done some research and it appears that the problem, as you rightly mention above, with using the 10 speed rear derailleurs with 10 speed cassettes that have extended ratios such as a 40T or 42T is the cage doesn't have any offset, which results in very poor shifting. The easy work around is to use a 11 speed rear derailleur such as the M9000 or M8000 versions, together with the 10 speed shifters and cassette and then there are no issues. The derailleur follows the pull ratio as dictated by the shifter. I think I'm going to purchase an 11 speed derailleur and give it a try in order to improve my shifting - anything will be better than current shifting.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I have done some research and it appears that the problem, as you rightly mention above, with using the 10 speed rear derailleurs with 10 speed cassettes that have extended ratios such as a 40T or 42T is the cage doesn't have any offset, which results in very poor shifting. The easy work around is to use a 11 speed rear derailleur such as the M9000 or M8000 versions, together with the 10 speed shifters and cassette and then there are no issues. The derailleur follows the pull ratio as dictated by the shifter. I think I'm going to purchase an 11 speed derailleur and give it a try in order to improve my shifting - anything will be better than current shifting.I had no problem with my SLX 10sp and Praxis cassette whatsoever Having said that there's a One Up "shark cage" or some such thing that addresses the issue you seem to be having.
Odinson Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I have done some research and it appears that the problem, as you rightly mention above, with using the 10 speed rear derailleurs with 10 speed cassettes that have extended ratios such as a 40T or 42T is the cage doesn't have any offset, which results in very poor shifting. The easy work around is to use a 11 speed rear derailleur such as the M9000 or M8000 versions, together with the 10 speed shifters and cassette and then there are no issues. The derailleur follows the pull ratio as dictated by the shifter. I think I'm going to purchase an 11 speed derailleur and give it a try in order to improve my shifting - anything will be better than current shifting. Look into Wolftooth Components' 'Goat Link'. It's designed to assist shifting performance for wide-range 10spd cassettes with Shimano mechs. Should be cheaper than an 11spd mech.
dave303e Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 Had a keen eye on this with my 1x11 upgrade kit arriving this week...
JXV Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I have done some research and it appears that the problem, as you rightly mention above, with using the 10 speed rear derailleurs with 10 speed cassettes that have extended ratios such as a 40T or 42T is the cage doesn't have any offset, which results in very poor shifting. The easy work around is to use a 11 speed rear derailleur such as the M9000 or M8000 versions, together with the 10 speed shifters and cassette and then there are no issues. The derailleur follows the pull ratio as dictated by the shifter. I think I'm going to purchase an 11 speed derailleur and give it a try in order to improve my shifting - anything will be better than current shifting.When I ran 1x10 with XT M786-RD on a converted 11-42 cassette it didn't shift quite as slick as before but it was 100% reliable (kinda like a SRAM drivetrain [emoji12] ). There might be something more at fault with yours. I think you might be pushing it to run the Sunrace 11-46 on there. 10 teeth bigger than it was made for! 11 speed RD driven by the 10 speed shifter might work quite well if the shift ratios have stayed the same. Or as Myles and Odinson indicated there are replacement RD cages available that reposition the top pulley for better shifting with wide range cassettes. When you examine the M8000 RD alongside the M786 the layout and geometry is quite different. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
lerouc Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I've converted 3 bikes to 1x10s before going 1x11. Two was on XT (one clutch one non) and the wife's bike is running an SLX 10speed RD. All three went to 11-42 cassettes. 2 was running expander cogs of rapide and 1 was running sunrace cassette. After giving the RD a bit of a tweak i couldn't tell a difference from shifting the 11-36 cassettes. I do say my 11speed shifts better than the wifes 1x10 setup but hers is SLX tech that is 5 years old and mine is XT thats 2 years old, so no surprise there.
Zucs Posted February 8, 2017 Author Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks very much for all the extremely useful advice, insights and help on this! I have ordered and paid! Settled on the XT shifter, chain and derailleur, with an 11-46t at the back and the only difference being I chickened out of the 34t oval ring up front and stuck with the 32t (never know when you will need that granny!) Let's see how it goes... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Schnavel Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Has your stuff arrived yet? Keen to hear your feedback.
Zucs Posted February 11, 2017 Author Posted February 11, 2017 Has your stuff arrived yet? Keen to hear your feedback.Can you believe it I ordered and paid on Chain Reaction only to receive a mail from them later in the day saying the derailleur I had ordered was out of stock, so they refunded and cancelled my order! (While I lost R200 on the exchange rate in the process!) Very bleak - not sure what to do now as they won't place the item on back order for me it seems... Will keep you posted!
V12man Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Can you believe it I ordered and paid on Chain Reaction only to receive a mail from them later in the day saying the derailleur I had ordered was out of stock, so they refunded and cancelled my order! (While I lost R200 on the exchange rate in the process!) Very bleak - not sure what to do now as they won't place the item on back order for me it seems... Will keep you posted!Phone them... they respond better to a call.
Zucs Posted February 11, 2017 Author Posted February 11, 2017 Phone them... they respond better to a call.Will do - let's see what they say... Would be quite happy to wait and/or take and XTR derailleur instead... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zucs Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 Just as an update - my toys have arrived! See picture attached. Will let you know how the fitment goes and how I am enjoying the new ride...
Schnavel Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 After following this thread with interest, I also went ahead and purhcased an 11 speed rear derailleur for my 10 speed setup. The shifting quality of the XTR 10 speed rear derailleur with the 10 speed 11-42 Sunrace cassette has been extremely bad to say the least. Fitted the 11 speed rear derailleur and bingo - shifts like a dream!
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