Whats the best value for money race drink to have in your pack ?

[fanievb]

The sulphur dioxide in that **** makes me wheeze badly.

 

 

Jinne Fanie, asseblief tog man. Have some consideration for those of us with a more sensitive constitution !  Or are you genuinely a closet ANCYL supporter?

 

Oom, it works (for me). maak dit lekker flou, met 'n knippie sout en bobs your uncle. Een bottel Oros en een bottel water. 

 

the league ain't the same wiffout Juju

[jcza]

As a start, the 1st paragraph you copied contradicts a lot of the scientific papers they reference later on; or should I rather say their interpretation of the papers is based on very selective reading of such papers.

 

Perhaps read at least the abstracts of the papers they list, but be mindful that the most recent publication (2008) they list is already borderline outdated.

I'm sure the guys at Cadence Nutrion will be happy to engage with you regarding possible contradictions. Ignoring their referenced research you will find numerous other published (and peer reviewed) papers on the subject of performance and CHO intake.

 

Please be kind enough to share information that proves otherwise.

[Odinson]

I'm sure the guys at Cadence Nutrion will be happy to engage with you regarding possible contradictions. Ignoring their referenced research you will find numerous other published (and peer reviewed) papers on the subject of performance and CHO intake.

 

Please be kind enough to share information that proves otherwise.

 

Are you a Cadence Nutrition employee?

 

#ToutingHard #PrettyObviousBias #Hasthag #PsuedoScience

[The Doctor]

As a start, the 1st paragraph you copied contradicts a lot of the scientific papers they reference later on; or should I rather say their interpretation of the papers is based on very selective reading of such papers.

 

Perhaps read at least the abstracts of the papers they list, but be mindful that the most recent publication (2008) they list is already borderline outdated.

 

I see there was a post that he/she is a Cadence employee. Definitely not but glad to see we have some fans. Clearly also takes the time to read through the evidence.

 

Regarding the dehydration and it's ergolytic effects: 

 

The research supporting this was largely funded by Gatorade and industry.

 

Yes, dehydration in excess of 3% can impair performance. However, dehydration to that extent is rare in normal race conditions where athletes drink to thirst.

 

Hence the point that athletes should primarily drink to consume exogenous carbohydrate and not simply to replace fluids.

 

Regarding recent (post 2013) INDEPENDENTLY conducted research on this issue:

 

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/09/20/bjsports-2013-092417.short

 

http://journals.humankinetics.com/doi/abs/10.1123/ijsnem.2016-0194

 

http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(16)00110-1/fulltext

 

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2015/01000/Two_Percent_Hypohydration_Does_Not_Impair.15.aspx

[seven]

I see there was a post that he/she is a Cadence employee. Definitely not but glad to see we have some fans. Clearly also takes the time to read through the evidence.

 

Regarding the dehydration and it's ergolytic effects:

 

The research supporting this was largely funded by Gatorade and industry.

 

Yes, dehydration in excess of 3% can impair performance. However, dehydration to that extent is rare in normal race conditions where athletes drink to thirst.

 

Hence the point that athletes should primarily drink to consume exogenous carbohydrate and not simply to replace fluids.

 

Regarding recent (post 2013) INDEPENDENTLY conducted research on this issue:

 

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/09/20/bjsports-2013-092417.short

 

http://journals.humankinetics.com/doi/abs/10.1123/ijsnem.2016-0194

 

http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(16)00110-1/fulltext

 

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2015/01000/Two_Percent_Hypohydration_Does_Not_Impair.15.aspx

I agree with everything you said/reference here.

 

I'm saying its not only about carbs, but rather calories that could be absorbed and used (e.g. Adding protein/protein peptides would increase available calories for absorption and use, above what carbs alone can do).

 

There are 2 general approaches:

- Drink to fuel (as is described by most here)

- Drink to hydrate, and fuel via solid foods (not the old Gatorade approach, but to thirst)

Edited February 18, 2017 by seven

[RyanD]

I too am a fan of the Cadence Carbo fuel.

If I am going near three hours or over on the MTB I will mix the first bottle with the cadence drink that contains protein. I will also eat my USN energy oats bar within the first two hours. The second and third bottles will be carbofuel.

 

As an answer to the OP: I decided some time back never to use anything but water in my pack as the bladder is a mission to clean well. I have not used a pack in over three years now and get by with two bottles on the bike. I doubt I will ever use the pack again.

[porqui]

Unidri 20 from Tongaat Hulett

 

Long chain maltodextrine.

 

Its the base powder used by most energy stuff.

 

Yes at about R280 for 25kg

Basically no expiry date.

 

I just add a touch of plain salt.

[The Doctor]

I agree with everything you said/reference here.

 

I'm saying its not only about carbs, but rather calories that could be absorbed and used (e.g. Adding protein/protein peptides would increase available calories for absorption and use, above what carbs alone can do).

 

There are 2 general approaches:

- Drink to fuel (as is described by most here)

- Drink to hydrate, and fuel via solid foods (not the old Gatorade approach, but to thirst)

 

I was responding to the 2 posts. One that said that the statement on our website was not supported by the evidence. Which it clearly is.

 

The other simply said "Fake news"

 

But to respond to your point:

 

You are correct. We previously believed (without evidence) that drinking carbohydrate would result in the fastest delivery rate. However, whether you drink, use gels or eat solids, the absorption rates are fairly similar and so you can drink simply to hydrate and eat the calories. 

 

However, calculating CHO intake with solids is a little trickier and may result in peaks and troughs that are not ideal.

 

With regards to fluid intake: Dilute (low osmolality) fluid results in higher gastric emptying rates but with increasing carbohydrate concentrations the carb delivery initially increases in rate progressively until it peaks with concentrations of about 8% (8g/100ml solution). Above that concentration the gastric emptying rate slows down too much and the carb delivery decreases again. Which is why most commercial drinks are approximately 8% (40g CHO per 500mls) when mixed correctly.

[The Doctor]

Unidri 20 from Tongaat Hulett

 

Long chain maltodextrine.

 

Its the base powder used by most energy stuff.

 

Yes at about R280 for 25kg

Basically no expiry date.

 

I just add a touch of plain salt.

Maltodextrin is composed of chains of dextrose. These all compete for absorption across sodium dependant glucose uptake transporter 1 (S-GLUT1).

 

As a result the peak absorption rate is about 60g/hr.

 

Adding Fructose results in up to100g/hr total carbohydrate absorption. This is because fructose has it's own transports (GLUT-5). 

 

2/3 maltodextrin and 1/3 fructose results in higher exogenous carb oxidation (using more ingested carbs and saving your endogenous stores), better performance, lower gastro-intestinal symptoms than any other carbohydrate mix.

 

Which is why the most popular products GU and Powerbar both use this formula. They would be silly to not use the best possible formulation. The science is published. it's not some secret formula.

 

The only 2 other products on the market that I am aware of that use the same formulation are Hi-5 and Cadence Nutrition. There might be others so please point them out if that's the case.

 

Using a product with any other formulation is definitely going to make you slower and possibly also cause you to develop nausea or diahorrea if you try to ingest the same rate as with a 2:1 maltodextrin fructose mix.

 

So I would and do happily recommend any one of the 4 products above to athletes, not just Cadence Nutrition. If you've been to one of my talks you will have noted so.

 

Nice summary here by Jeukendrup, including a 32 references for those who are keen readers.

 

http://www.gssiweb.org/Article/sse-108-multiple-transportable-carbohydrates-and-their-benefits

[porqui]

Maltodextrin is composed of chains of dextrose. These all compete for absorption across sodium dependant glucose uptake transporter 1 (S-GLUT1).

 

As a result the peak absorption rate is about 60g/hr.

 

Adding Fructose results in up to100g/hr total carbohydrate absorption. This is because fructose has it's own tr........

 

Nice summary here by Jeukendrup, including a 32 references for those who are keen readers.

 

http://www.gssiweb.org/Article/sse-108-multiple-transportable-carbohydrates-and-their-benefits

 

Thank you

[The Doctor]

I too am a fan of the Cadence Carbo fuel.

If I am going near three hours or over on the MTB I will mix the first bottle with the cadence drink that contains protein. I will also eat my USN energy oats bar within the first two hours. The second and third bottles will be carbofuel.

 

As an answer to the OP: I decided some time back never to use anything but water in my pack as the bladder is a mission to clean well. I have not used a pack in over three years now and get by with two bottles on the bike. I doubt I will ever use the pack again.

 

Your drinking strategy is spot on.

 

Did you figure that out by trial and error or from our chart?

 

http://www.cadencenutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cadence-How-to-Use.png

[brucem76]

Maltodextrin is composed of chains of dextrose. These all compete for absorption across sodium dependant glucose uptake transporter 1 (S-GLUT1).

 

As a result the peak absorption rate is about 60g/hr.

 

Adding Fructose results in up to100g/hr total carbohydrate absorption. This is because fructose has it's own transports (GLUT-5).

 

2/3 maltodextrin and 1/3 fructose results in higher exogenous carb oxidation (using more ingested carbs and saving your endogenous stores), better performance, lower gastro-intestinal symptoms than any other carbohydrate mix.

 

Which is why the most popular products GU and Powerbar both use this formula. They would be silly to not use the best possible formulation. The science is published. it's not some secret formula.

 

The only 2 other products on the market that I am aware of that use the same formulation are Hi-5 and Cadence Nutrition. There might be others so please point them out if that's the case.

 

Using a product with any other formulation is definitely going to make you slower and possibly also cause you to develop nausea or diahorrea if you try to ingest the same rate as with a 2:1 maltodextrin fructose mix.

 

So I would and do happily recommend any one of the 4 products above to athletes, not just Cadence Nutrition. If you've been to one of my talks you will have noted so.

 

Nice summary here by Jeukendrup, including a 32 references for those who are keen readers.

 

http://www.gssiweb.org/Article/sse-108-multiple-transportable-carbohydrates-and-their-benefits

Super helpful. Any USN products use this ratio? The one I use says: "Carb matrix (Sucrose, Maltodextrin)"

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Edited February 18, 2017 by brucem76

[The Doctor]

Super helpful. Any USN products use this ratio? The one I use says: "Carb matrix (Sucrose, Maltodextrin)"

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

Sucrose is 50:50 Glucose and fructose

 

So in essence it has the right ingredients but I can't confirm that they are in the right concentration.

[Bloukrans]

How did this now become a Cadence marketing exercise? Just answer the OP question and take the science debate somewhere else.

 

#justsaying

[seven]

I was responding to the 2 posts. One that said that the statement on our website was not supported by the evidence. Which it clearly is.

 

The other simply said "Fake news"

 

But to respond to your point:

 

You are correct. We previously believed (without evidence) that drinking carbohydrate would result in the fastest delivery rate. However, whether you drink, use gels or eat solids, the absorption rates are fairly similar and so you can drink simply to hydrate and eat the calories. 

 

However, calculating CHO intake with solids is a little trickier and may result in peaks and troughs that are not ideal.

 

With regards to fluid intake: Dilute (low osmolality) fluid results in higher gastric emptying rates but with increasing carbohydrate concentrations the carb delivery initially increases in rate progressively until it peaks with concentrations of about 8% (8g/100ml solution). Above that concentration the gastric emptying rate slows down too much and the carb delivery decreases again. Which is why most commercial drinks are approximately 8% (40g CHO per 500mls) when mixed correctly.

Shot Doc!

 

Agree with your posts.  Just saying there is more to this than just carbs, which you obviously also know and the Cadence products reflect with regards to composition.  (Unlike some others..)

[RyanD]

Your drinking strategy is spot on.

 

Did you figure that out by trial and error or from our chart?

 

http://www.cadencenutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cadence-How-to-Use.png

 

I am over 40 so trial and error over the years and then tweaked by your literature, thanks for your confirmation I understood it correctly. It works well for me.

 

Thanks again

Ryan.