Barend de Arend Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Science comes down to consensus view of current knowledge and assumptions. Granted, hopefully well learned assumptions. Sadly the history of science is riddled with scientists being caught up with the (defense of) current scientific dogma, and not doing an honest job of questioning, learning and expanding knowledge. Only human after all... #include std-disclaimer.hNot a defense of theism, acknowledgement of atheism, agnosticism or the proposal of the abandonment of science, nor support that science and theism are at odds. The above is a mere observation. Science also demands an objective test.[*] That's an important difference with other methodologies. It must be possible to test your theory, and the test must be independent of the tester. It's that objective test that allows for changing consensus. Yes, sometimes science does get it wrong. A good example is Phlogiston. Science isn't afraid to go back and change it's mind though. If there's new proof, science can and does change the set of "accepted knowledge." [*] currently a problem with theoretical physics, causing some debate.
Paul Ruinaard Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Science also demands an objective test.[*] That's an important difference with other methodologies. It must be possible to test your theory, and the test must be independent of the tester. It's that objective test that allows for changing consensus. Yes, sometimes science does get it wrong. A good example is Phlogiston. Science isn't afraid to go back and change it's mind though. If there's new proof, science can and does change the set of "accepted knowledge." [*] currently a problem with theoretical physics, causing some debate.The fact is about half of what we know and accept as fact is wrong - just we dont know which half. Given that science is a very large bucket in itself ranging from simple scientific facts to quantum physics, string theory and the like, truth can and will often sound like fiction - especially in the realm of the very small i.e. subatomic physics - which is best left to the 5 or 10 people in the world who truly understand it aka Mr Hawkings. Even Einstein did not believe his findings, and only much later were they proved true. Its easier to look at the world as we experience it and draw conclusions from that - go an google James Randi - especially the Youtube video on whether God Exists - basically explains what i am saying.
Tubehunter Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 How has flat earthing turned into another belief debate centred on GOD's existence? Surely this argument doesn't require us to understand from where earth comes in order to determine its shape? Earth has matter and this can be measured and has. Flat earthers clearly are determined to ignore any basis of proven undisputed facts and remain consciously ignorant which is just another way of stating deliberately stupid, however blissful they perceive that!
Patchelicious Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 How has flat earthing turned into another belief debate centred on GOD's existence? Surely this argument doesn't require us to understand from where earth comes in order to determine its shape? Earth has matter and this can be measured and has. Flat earthers Lots of religious people clearly are determined to ignore any basis of proven undisputed facts and remain consciously ignorant which is just another way of stating deliberately stupid, however blissful they perceive that! Thats probably why, the one is merely an exaggeration of the other....
Eldron Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 How has flat earthing turned into another belief debate centred on GOD's existence? Surely this argument doesn't require us to understand from where earth comes in order to determine its shape? Earth has matter and this can be measured and has. Flat earthers clearly are determined to ignore any basis of proven undisputed facts and remain consciously ignorant which is just another way of stating deliberately stupid, however blissful they perceive that!Because religion and flat earthers both have faith that they're right with zero evidence.
Patchelicious Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Because religion and flat earthers both have faith that they're right with zero evidence.Very well put.
Tubehunter Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Thats probably why, the one is merely an exaggeration of the other.... Is that because flat earthers FEEL a personal relationship with the shape of the earth that they can't explain using quantifiable scientific formulas? Given science CAN prove matter and shapes that matter has, I don't see how you make the conclusions you have, so if you continue to IMPLY that my choice to believe is nothing more than an expanded set of stupidity akin to believing the earth is flat I would as uncharacteristically as possible suggest you GFY!
Thor Buttox Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Jo, I am having serious de javu. Will I have had shall been in this thread already elsewhere?
Paddaman Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 I blame Karl Marx and Micheal Foucault and the Frankfurt School of thought for all this post- constructionist , neo-marxist, relativist, post-truth, emotive outbursts that we accept in place of rational thought.
Tubehunter Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Because religion and flat earthers both have faith that they're right with zero evidence. NOPE! THERE IS EVIDENCE THE EARTH IS ROUND! There is no evidence for or against whether GOD exists. You guys are seriously starting to p1$$ me off with your contentious efforts to continuously make a mockery. If you don't WANT to understand stop pretending to debate something you clearly have no desire to grapple with.
Patchelicious Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Is that because flat earthers FEEL a personal relationship with the shape of the earth that they can't explain using quantifiable scientific formulas? Given science CAN prove matter and shapes that matter has, I don't see how you make the conclusions you have, so if you continue to IMPLY that my choice to believe is nothing more than an expanded set of stupidity akin to believing the earth is flat I would as uncharacteristically as possible suggest you GFY!I really think that was uncalled for. Eldron saids it well. The similarities are; beliefs based on bad evidence.
Paddaman Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 NOPE! THERE IS EVIDENCE THE EARTH IS ROUND! There is no evidence for or against whether GOD exists. You guys are seriously starting to p1$$ me off with your contentious efforts to continuously make a mockery. If you don't WANT to understand stop pretending to debate something you clearly have no desire to grapple with. There you have it folks, "there is no evidence for .........whether God exists". It must be tough as representative of an omnipresent, omnipotent being to be unable to garner some evidence of your clients existence. Yes I am taking the pi$$.
Tubehunter Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 I really think that was uncalled for. Eldron saids it well. The similarities are; beliefs based on bad evidence. I think it's uncalled for that after months debating on another thread you feel it opportune to equate the belief in GOD to a similar belief in a flat earth????????? Are you for real in claiming that because both of these require an element of faith, that faith as a whole is flawed and anything faith related is therefore a failure to recognise some higher form of intellect? I feel offended that you even suggest there's a similarity. Makes months of participation in the other thread seem a total waste of time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Patchelicious Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 NOPE! THERE IS EVIDENCE THE EARTH IS ROUND! There is no evidence for or against whether GOD exists. You guys are seriously starting to p1$$ me off with your contentious efforts to continuously make a mockery. If you don't WANT to understand stop pretending to debate something you clearly have no desire to grapple with.Agreed. So you accept that evidence and thereby make the conclusion that what they believe is probably not true. There is lots of evidence for many other things that people attribute to religion. I think what differs is where individuals draw the line between "absurd" and "believable", and where they decide to start ignoring the fact and evidence. Look you are obviously not in a space to discuss this constructively, so I will not engage further. I mean that with all sincerity, I think the sensitivity that I have show to this topic over a long period of time, is evidence that I mean that
Patchelicious Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 I think it's uncalled for that after months debating on another thread you feel it opportune to equate the belief in GOD to a similar belief in a flat earth????????? Are you for real in claiming that because both of these require an element of faith, that faith as a whole is flawed and anything faith related is therefore a failure to recognise some higher form of intellect? I feel offended that you even suggest there's a similarity. Makes months of participation in the other thread seem a total waste of time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You taking offense for me answering your question as to why people are drawing similarities between the two, is a little different than you telling me to GFY. I have been very specific about why they are similar.
Tubehunter Posted July 13, 2017 Posted July 13, 2017 Agreed. So you accept that evidence and thereby make the conclusion that what they believe is probably not true. There is lots of evidence for many other things that people attribute to religion. I think what differs is where individuals draw the line between "absurd" and "believable", and where they decide to start ignoring the fact and evidence. Look you are obviously not in a space to discuss this constructively, so I will not engage further. I mean that with all sincerity, I think the sensitivity that I have show to this topic over a long period of time, is evidence that I mean that Of course I accept evidence that suggests a qualified proof of all things scientific. I also accept that every single person is entitled to a belief of their own, whether scientific evidence proves this or not. SO even though I don't agree with the flat earth clowns, if they GENUINELY want to believe that they can knock themselves out, however deliberately stupid I think they may be! What I don't accept is whenever any topic has an element of faith to it, that it degenerates into a multiplication of the faith principle into the final conclusion of whether GOD exists and a veiled attack on those who do, or even likening them to in this case, people who insist on believing in a flat earth! Until science proves otherwise I will continue to feel connected to my spirituality and personal relationship I sense with my creator.
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