Santa Cruz Tallboy or Cannondale Scalpel

[Lance Stephenson]

Hi everyone

 

I am looking at changing / upgrading my current bike.

 

I am currently on a 2016 Scott Spark 910 Large. I am 178cm with a 79cm inseam and 93kgs. With most manufacturers, I am literaly on the border line of M and L. Whilst I love my Scott, I have never truly felt like it fits me correctly, havent really felt a 'part' of the bike when riding, and as a result, I am a bit slow on technical and descending. I do, however, find that a climb well on it.

 

I would say I lean more towards cross country riding with the main goal to complete some stage races, like berg and bush and W2W..

 

I test rode a medium scalpel si3 and found it was great in the technical and descending but didnt notice much difference on long flat sections and climbing (this could have been because i didnt do a proepr set up). I did find that i was able to have more fun with the bike.

 

I have been advised that given my measurements, the Tallboy 3 large may be a perfect fit, and for stage races, the geometry will be more forgiving on the body. Obviously, it's a bit more expensive with slightly lower spec (if you look at the S). No shops have demo's at the moment though so can't test ride one.

 

Can anybody give me some insight on the Tallboy in terms of suitability for stage races and my size? Or if the medium calpel si3 or si2 would be good with a proper set up? Or any other suggestions?

 

Thanks

I would say, The Scalpel has the newer "generation" of geometry thinking and wisdom compared to the Tallboy which is unchanged for the last 5 years.  One of the biggest hate I have with a Tallboy is the low BB which cause many rock strikes of pedals when climbing singletrack.  It's off putting and often stops you dead in your tracks.  The handling which makes it a demon downhill also makes it lazy up.  It climbs well enough, but requires your setup and your body position to keep the nose down when climbing.  You fight the bike and waist energy.  Now in most stages races you spend many hours climbing (and therefore a bike that climbs with more easy is a smarter choice) than you do descending.  Don't buy a bike because it enhances your strength, buy on that helps your weakness.  In every cyclist I've come across, everyone is looking for more climbing ability.  I think the Scalpels new Geometry and new offset Lefty is a absolute beast of a bike.  Set her up, point and shoot.  It will climb and it will descend, no thinking required about pedals being to low and no over compensating for weight shift climbing, just straight forward riding.

[spy]

I would say, The Scalpel has the newer "generation" of geometry thinking and wisdom compared to the Tallboy which is unchanged for the last 5 years.  One of the biggest hate I have with a Tallboy is the low BB which cause many rock strikes of pedals when climbing singletrack.  It's off putting and often stops you dead in your tracks.  The handling which makes it a demon downhill also makes it lazy up.  It climbs well enough, but requires your setup and your body position to keep the nose down when climbing.  You fight the bike and waist energy.  Now in most stages races you spend many hours climbing (and therefore a bike that climbs with more easy is a smarter choice) than you do descending.  Don't buy a bike because it enhances your strength, buy on that helps your weakness.  In every cyclist I've come across, everyone is looking for more climbing ability.  I think the Scalpels new Geometry and new offset Lefty is a absolute beast of a bike.  Set her up, point and shoot.  It will climb and it will descend, no thinking required about pedals being to low and no over compensating for weight shift climbing, just straight forward riding.

 

Agree  , on the Offset....a lot of Buyers don't even look at this or understand that a bigger offset gives you less trail .....and this gives an XC type bike more agility on lower speed . 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I would say, The Scalpel has the newer "generation" of geometry thinking and wisdom compared to the Tallboy which is unchanged for the last 5 years.  One of the biggest hate I have with a Tallboy is the low BB which cause many rock strikes of pedals when climbing singletrack.  It's off putting and often stops you dead in your tracks.  The handling which makes it a demon downhill also makes it lazy up.  It climbs well enough, but requires your setup and your body position to keep the nose down when climbing.  You fight the bike and waist energy.  Now in most stages races you spend many hours climbing (and therefore a bike that climbs with more easy is a smarter choice) than you do descending.  Don't buy a bike because it enhances your strength, buy on that helps your weakness.  In every cyclist I've come across, everyone is looking for more climbing ability.  I think the Scalpels new Geometry and new offset Lefty is a absolute beast of a bike.  Set her up, point and shoot.  It will climb and it will descend, no thinking required about pedals being to low and no over compensating for weight shift climbing, just straight forward riding.

Tallboy got an update last year (now Tallboy 3) but it retains the low BB measurement. Something you have to take cognisance of when climbing for sure. Also descending in rocky conditions, when your pedals aren't at 9 & 3... had many many rock strikes on my Reign, which also has a super low BB. So much so that I'm wanting to swap to 165mm cranks... 

 

On the comment on the previous page (not yours, Lance) re the PREVIOUS gen scalpel - it's a totally different beast. More relaxed geo, better reach numbers and an overall more versatile bike than the old scalpel. IMO it'd be a very difficult choice between these 2 bikes, that will most probably come down to how you feel aboard each bike. Just remember to ensure that the suspension is set up for YOU, as incorrect suspension settings and the wrong size stem for you can result in an excellent bike feeling like total kaaaak when you ride it (thinking of the demo Jeffsy that was about 5,000km late for its suspension and pivot service)

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oh - and you can trust Lance's opinion.... 

[michaelbiker]

+1 for the Scalpel Si. I upgraded from the previous Scalpel and the difference is incredible. So much more forgiving and stable. The difference in stiffness, albeit I am now on carbon hoops is also noticeable.

 

Don’t forget the lefty diff either.

[dev null]

Just bought my son a Scalpel Si. Some or other time I wanna take it for a spin on Helderberg trails, and see how it compares with my BMC FourStroke. I also love the TB, but was nowhere close to afford it for myself.

 

I am usually just back of the middle bunch, while my son is on the front end of the field. My strength is climbing and riding into the wind. My weakness is descending and riding rocky stuff.

[428 others]

How's the bearing warranty on Cannondale?

[Stevief]

Agree  , on the Offset....a lot of Buyers don't even look at this or understand that a bigger offset gives you less trail .....and this gives an XC type bike more agility on lower speed . 

Please explain offset to me..... seriuosly i have no idea what this jargon means

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Please explain offset to me..... seriuosly i have no idea what this jargon means

[Stevief]

Ok understand that, so what are the pros v cons of having more or less offset?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Ok understand that, so what are the pros v cons of having more or less offset?

short answer - it depends. 

 

Here's an article tat goes through it far better than I can.

 

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/pushing-the-limits-of-fork-offset-an-experiment-45343/

[Escapee..]

Or what you can do, like someone I know, and fit a lefty fork on your SC Tallboy!

[Stevief]

short answer - it depends. 

 

Here's an article tat goes through it far better than I can.

 

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/pushing-the-limits-of-fork-offset-an-experiment-45343/

That article confused the hell out of me.  I still dont know what a good offset head angle combination should be for  a bike to corner well ,and  descend without feeling twitchy

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That article confused the hell out of me.  I still dont know what a good offset head angle combination should be for  a bike to corner well ,and  descend without feeling twitchy

test, test and test some more. Your idea of twitchy is different to mine, so test and test some more to find out what suits you. 

[stringbean]

Really really difficult because both are very good bikes.You said you lean towards stage races so I would go scalpel then.Sounds strange but 2 proper bottle cages on the bike really makes a difference ( this bottle behind the seatpost is crap and just doesn't work).

At the price that the SC frames are going for I think you would also get a better build from the scalpel.

Having said that the build quality of SC is second to none.The small details like grease ports on pivots,lifetime bearing warranty and generally top quality frame.

But if stage racing is what you going to do it's the scalpel for me.

[MitchConway]

The after sales service from Santa Cruz in itself is worth going with the tallboy! But an amazing bike as well.