World, where is SA??

[Icycling]

We are not a cycling nation, how many dutch rugby teams do you see? Belgian rugby teams?

This is great to see for Rugby - nice to see government supporting sport. I hope one day in my life time they support cycling to this degree while not taking any government support from other sports they supporting.

 

https://www.google.co.za/amp/www.biznews.com/rugby/2017/08/04/rugby-world-cup-2023-bid/amp/

[Jewbacca]

Unless you spend it (waste it) money is pretty pointless.

Well, like I said, no one can force you to see.

 

Spending: Using enough water to stay clean, eat, stay hydrated and keep the succulants alive.

 

Wasting: Showering for 15 minutes. Watering the garden at midday until it forms a bog. Leaving the tap on when you brush your teeth. Filling the swimming pool even though it's winter and you won't use it.

 

As you can see, both are uses for water. One is spending and one is wasting. By wasting there is now less for others, while if you spend wisely, there is more than enough. The same can be applied to the scenario of world sport. 

 

The end

[rudi-h]

Well, like I said, no one can force you to see.

 

Spending: Using enough water to stay clean, eat, stay hydrated and keep the succulants alive.

 

Wasting: Showering for 15 minutes. Watering the garden at midday until it forms a bog. Leaving the tap on when you brush your teeth. Filling the swimming pool even though it's winter and you won't use it.

 

As you can see, both are uses for water. One is spending and one is wasting. By wasting there is now less for others, while if you spend wisely, there is more than enough. The same can be applied to the scenario of world sport. 

 

The end

 

not arguing, just not sure I understand the economics of your statement...  so what does the world look like without world sports?  what should we then allow and where do we draw the line between which sports and/or sporting events are overall positive or negative to a country or a society?

 

As an example...  the tour de france managed to put France on the map as the undisputed #1 cycling destination in the world.  I don't have the numbers, but I am very sure that hosting the tour de france every year pays off 10-fold to the host country in tourism, broadcasting rights etc.?  would you then argue that the tour de france (a world sporting event) is a nett loss to society and a waste of resources?

 

Is the cost of building ellis park and having professional provincial and national rugby teams really a nett loss to SA?

[SwissVan]

Well, like I said, no one can force you to see.

 

Spending: Using enough water to stay clean, eat, stay hydrated and keep the succulants alive.

 

Wasting: Showering for 15 minutes. Watering the garden at midday until it forms a bog. Leaving the tap on when you brush your teeth. Filling the swimming pool even though it's winter and you won't use it.

 

As you can see, both are uses for water. One is spending and one is wasting. By wasting there is now less for others, while if you spend wisely, there is more than enough. The same can be applied to the scenario of world sport.

 

The end

Don't change the subject to suit your point of view.

 

We are talking about money spent on cycling, not water.

[Transporter]

Mmmm......good old CSA Cycling South Africa.

 

Years ago compiled a 5 year budget for the Road Commission.

 

All costs were included to send Junior and Elite teams to race abroad including all costs travel and accommodation included. Provision also made for Vets to Vets world's.

 

Also budgeted for a fully staffed road commission in Johannesburg.

 

If I remember correctly at the time round about R 115 M for 5 years.

 

It was regarded as the worst budget ever.

 

No wonder we suck on the world scene.

[Fat Boab]

I can't seem to find the names of the 9 voting delegates from the CAC

 

Although their is one saffer on the managemenf committee

 

http://cac-africa.com/page/view.php?pid=1

 

President  Dr. Mohamed Wagih AZZAM  (Egypt)    Africa Representative at UCI Management Committee  Mr.Mohammed BELMAHI  ( Morocco )   Vice-president  Mr. Julius N. MWANGI  (Kenya)   Secretary General Mr. Yao ALLAH-KOUAMÉ  (Côte D’Ivoire)  

Treasurer  Mr. Danilo CORREIA (Mozambique)   Members  Mr. William Newman  (South Africa)  http://cac-africa.com/images/upload/56cd9046a8b8a.jpg Mr. Aimable Bayingana (Rwanda)     Mr. AbdelKhaled Khaledoun  (Morocco)     Mr. Michel THIOUB Senegal   Mr. Abderrahmane ETHMANE Mauritania  

 

Mr. Bashir MOHAMMED Nigeria   Mrs. Aminata MARA Guinea

 

 

Smells like the farcical FIFA to me

 

Well if you read Froome's autobio, he has some interesting insights into Mr Mwangi......,.

[Patchelicious]

Don't change the subject to suit your point of view.

 

We are talking about money spent on cycling, not water.

He is talking about the concept of spending vs wasting, not cycling vs water.

[Icycling]

Well, like I said, no one can force you to see.

 

Spending: Using enough water to stay clean, eat, stay hydrated and keep the succulants alive.

 

Wasting: Showering for 15 minutes. Watering the garden at midday until it forms a bog. Leaving the tap on when you brush your teeth. Filling the swimming pool even though it's winter and you won't use it.

 

As you can see, both are uses for water. One is spending and one is wasting. By wasting there is now less for others, while if you spend wisely, there is more than enough. The same can be applied to the scenario of world sport. 

 

The end

 

Don't change the subject to suit your point of view.

 

We are talking about money spent on cycling, not water.

 

He is talking about the concept of spending vs wasting, not cycling vs water.

Not sure if he has changed the subject! Just need to take it one step further forward. Kind of what Israel did - one article below.

 

Basically by investing in cycling (or water) you can create a more prosperous cycle industry including cycle tourism as mention by TDF comments in the thread or (reduce the drought). But by doing nothing then you create a desert! By having a more prosperous cycle industry then the TAX system benefits even more. The scenarios are similar.

 

On Jewbacca comments on competition this thread by not having competition / be it a a cycle race or a school report card we are breading the world stupid ? That's unfortunately already happening. I would suggest watch the movie Idiocracy story line - "In 2005, average in every way private Joe Bowers (Luke Wilson) is selected to take part in a secret military experiment to put him in hibernation for a year along with a woman named Rita (Maya Rudolph). The slumbering duo is forgotten when the base they are stored on is closed down and are left in stasis until 2505. When they finally wake up, they discover the average intelligence of humans has decreased so much that Joe is now the smartest man in the world."

 

https://spectator.org/israel-is-the-key-to-solving-the-worlds-water-crisis/

[Jewbacca]

He is talking about the concept of spending vs wasting, not cycling vs water.

It just shows that people will see what they want to see and take what they want to take.

 

Doing away with competition is NOT what I suggested. Doing away with asking countries to PAY for that competition and then laying blame on them for not doing enough is what I suggest we do away with.

 

Competition is good. Corruption and mismanagement to create competition is not. 

 

Don't lose sight of what it costs vs what it could cost. 

 

THIS is my point.

[Fat Boab]

Don't we have #1 and #2 of the world's largest timed cycle events (or however they are conveniently defined)? Is it too naïve to expect some relationship between this and funding/success at elite level? How do other countries/sports compare in this regard?

[Patchelicious]

Don't we have #1 and #2 of the world's largest timed cycle events (or however they are conveniently defined)? Is it too naïve to expect some relationship between this and funding/success at elite level? How do other countries/sports compare in this regard?

We so have the Epic, biggest toughest MTB race in the world, apparently.

 

We even have a special catergory for incentivizing development. So maybe the Belgian rugby thing is a little exaggerated?

[Icycling]

Don't we have #1 and #2 of the world's largest timed cycle events (or however they are conveniently defined)? Is it too naïve to expect some relationship between this and funding/success at elite level? How do other countries/sports compare in this regard?

Yes we do - I noted this at the top of page 2 of this thread. The politics behind that probably can been seen on a number of threads on the hub - to much to mention.

[SwissVan]

He is talking about the concept of spending vs wasting, not cycling vs water.

 

 

I think it's ok.. If we sent a team of 6 or a team of 16, besides Ashleigh, is anyone going to not just be hanging on the back?

 

Why should my tax money pay for cyclists to go to an event they are going to suck at?

 

I hae the same feeling about the Olympics as well... I am also a sour old goat who thinks ALL world sports games are a complete waste of money and resource. 

 

Human need to compete and see who is better at everything is ridiculous.. Why can't we rather spend the billions on keeping the planet, it's people and it's wildlife better preserved.

 

The fact that Tommy D won the ITT by 57 seconds means less than zero to 99% of the world. Brazil have a larger disparity than SA in terms of wealth, education and living conditions yet have gazillions to spend on a Soccer world cup and and Olympics?! Please..

 

Forgive me for misunderstanding the use of a rare commodity to explain his point of view wrt to sport competition...somehow i don't think even the wisest spending with zero wastage would make a difference.

[Icycling]

Any CA's or tax people on this thread?

 

So here is a question / example. Say in the 1st five years of started a business, that business runs at a loss and say accumulated losses of 1 million rand (1 million tax credit ). These losses then are written off against the profits so say in year 6 you tax owing R1 million - then that year you pay nothing and in year 7 your tax owing is R2 million - then you pay your 2 million and so on. Is that more or less correct?

 

If you are a student and pay your university expense surely then this expense should be allowed to be a tax credit? I don’t believe they are - but if you the student made yourselves into a PTY or personal proprietorship before studying would they?

 

Now more to the point - lets use Willie Smit as an example. For a number of years he has been investing in himself for cycling (even paid his own way to worlds this past weekend) and finally I believe he has got a Pro contract (Katusha Alpecin) possibly aided by his word performance (may have had it before), would he be able to claim back these expensive (all expenses over the years he personally made towards his cyclist contract) against future tax been paid on his salary? We know how SARS is looking at foreign income - recently many reports on this! I suspect he isn’t and like a student would not be able too. So what would a Junior cyclist / 1st year U23 cyclist need to do from a SARS perspective, if they really do believe they going to make money / salary in the sport in years to come to claim back their investment cost? CA / tax advisors is there anything - or is it all done at the individuals (cyclist) risk?

[SeanMort]

 

Any CA's or tax people on this thread?

 

So here is a question / example. Say in the 1st five years of started a business, that business runs at a loss and say accumulated losses of 1 million rand (1 million tax credit ). These losses then are written off against the profits so say in year 6 you tax owing R1 million - then that year you pay nothing and in year 7 your tax owing is R2 million - then you pay your 2 million and so on. Is that more or less correct?

 

If are a student and pay your university expense surely then this expense should be allowed to be a tax credit? I don’t believe they are - but if you the student made yourselves into a PTY or personal proprietorship before studying would they?

 

Now more to the point - lets use Willie Smit as an example. For a number of years he has been investing in himself for cycling (even paid his own way to worlds this past weekend) and finally I believe he has got a Pro contract (Katusha Alpecin) possibly aided by his word performance (may have had it before), would he be able to claim back these expensive (all expenses over the years he personally made towards his cyclist contract) against future tax been paid on his salary? We know how SARS is looking at foreign income - recently many reports on this! I suspect he isn’t and like a student would not be able too. So what would a Junior cyclist / 1st year U23 cyclist need to do from a SARS perspective, if they really do believe they going to make money / salary in the sport in years to come to claim back their investment cost? CA / tax advisors is there anything - or is it all done at the individuals (cyclist) risk?

 

 

Perhaps Carbon29er would be best placed to answer your questions privately (?) I don't see that he's on this thread anywhere, and perhaps that's for a good reason given his position with CSA. To add to the discussion; Lotto funding is a thing of the past unfortunately, but how about a properly managed crowd-funding initiative for the next World's ?

[@grootlem]

Lotto allocations paid for riders to compete when I was involved at CSA. We had to fight for the money but we got it. I think Lotto recently announced they wont pay for International training or competition for any sport any longer. So funding is an issue in any small sport without a big corporate sponsor. Some of our selected u23's decided they did not have the shape to compete for a podium and with self funding it wasnt worth it to go. We had 3 Elite men in the road race, others also pulled out. Normally its a case of not great shape or the course that did not suit them. Froome and other top Tour riders didnt do it either as the route was too flat. Next year we have over 5000m elevation so you will see a completeley different start list. It will be your top 10 GT riders as favourites. So the team can be Moolman Pasio at women (no one else will last a lap), Meintjes and maybe Jacques jvR or Willie depends how well he climbs on WT level. We have promising u23's like de Bod (had a looong injury lay off this season) and Dlamini that won KOM at u23  Giro. But no use taking riders that cant compete or assist.

WE DO have a problem that not enough new riders are coming through. in 2012 I think we had 5 women in the Giro Rosa, Im not sure who will be competing once Ash leaves.