Tour de France 2018

[Eldron]

No doubt..but I still sit here and think..if I am TD and I am on Alpe final climb...sky driving everybody to pieces what would I do with more riders around me?

How will that change the outcome of that stage..Thomas in the end got up and rode away..

 

Agreed on Sky driving the peleton but where a good team makes a big difference is breaks - Sky just up the tempo and chase down the break using their team riders. While the breakaway riders sit in the wind Chris and Geraint are shielded.

 

Sky are very good at controlling the race allowing them to impose their own strategy on the Tour - steal some time in the last few km of the climbs and another few seconds in the TTT and ITT and job done - the team stifles any other attacking racing.

 

That said - Sky's almost singular focus on the Tour de France gives them as decent advantage too.

 

On the opposing side - I do think the "big team" card is overplayed a bit. It does help but it isn't some magical force that ensure GT wins year after year.

[Jase619]

Not at all... I took up cycling and the surrounding interests post Lance, so I am neither disillusioned nor spurned regarding cyclists' creative pharmaceutical and chemical exploits...

 

But I would love you to explain how your observation leads us to believe G has won this tour doped up? Since 11 years ago he was able to finish second last... Go ahead.

 

Don't expect much more than being called a "Skybot" in response

[Eldron]

Don't expect much more than being called in "Skybot" in response

 

Yup. It's really easy to yell they all dope/Sky dope/Chris dopes but it is much harder to actually sit down and think about what they're taking and how they're beating the system.

 

Of course doubts still linger but as long as the biggest scandal in whether Chris did in fact abuse a legal drug in a fiasco that we should never have heard about if the rules were followed I'm happy that cycling is cleaner than the EPO fuelled, team wide blood bag duct taped to wall, brown bags full of Testosterone and HGH  era.

 

Perfectly clean? Nah. Cleaner? I reckon.

[s14phoenix]

Agreed on Sky driving the peleton but where a good team makes a big difference is breaks - Sky just up the tempo and chase down the break using their team riders. While the breakaway riders sit in the wind Chris and Geraint are shielded.

 

Sky are very good at controlling the race allowing them to impose their own strategy on the Tour - steal some time in the last few km of the climbs and another few seconds in the TTT and ITT and job done - the team stifles any other attacking racing.

 

That said - Sky's almost singular focus on the Tour de France gives them as decent advantage too.

 

On the opposing side - I do think the "big team" card is overplayed a bit. It does help but it isn't some magical force that ensure GT wins year after year.

 

An interesting fact is that Landa although still good has become a little rounder and slower now that he is off the Sky leash.

 

He himself said how he did not enjoy the strict training and diet required during his time at Sky. So he may be happier now but also fatter and slower as a result - One of the duds of TDF 2018 IMO

 

I think in a straight up 3 week tour without all the other factors like the Giro and Vuelta etc. taken out of the mix CF would have beaten GT. So I think Chris was correct in saying that it was going to be very close whether he would be able to pull out the win considering the Giro and the extra week he had to recover and prepare - as feared by him - it was not enough.

 

I think what would now be interesting is Sky's strategy in 2019 - who do they back now? Will they do the other grand tours again and who will target which tour? Things are going to either heat up at Sky or will someone perhaps make a move??

[Jewbacca]

They all dope in some way. Thinking they don't is like believing Cyril will stop the ANC from misappropriating all our tax money.

 

There is 'hope', but there is also a reality.

[Squier]

Yup. It's really easy to yell they all dope/Sky dope/Chris dopes but it is much harder to actually sit down and think about what they're taking and how they're beating the system.

 

Of course doubts still linger but as long as the biggest scandal in whether Chris did in fact abuse a legal drug in a fiasco that we should never have heard about if the rules were followed I'm happy that cycling is cleaner than the EPO fuelled, team wide blood bag duct taped to wall, brown bags full of Testosterone and HGH  era.

 

Perfectly clean? Nah. Cleaner? I reckon.

 

I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't dream big. I'm sorry you can't believe in Miracles. But this is one hell of a race! This is a great sporting event and you should stand around and believe it! You should believe in these athletes and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour for as long as I live - and there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it. vive Le Tour!

 

[nochain]

Agreed on Sky driving the peleton but where a good team makes a big difference is breaks - Sky just up the tempo and chase down the break using their team riders. While the breakaway riders sit in the wind Chris and Geraint are shielded.

 

Sky are very good at controlling the race allowing them to impose their own strategy on the Tour - steal some time in the last few km of the climbs and another few seconds in the TTT and ITT and job done - the team stifles any other attacking racing.

 

That said - Sky's almost singular focus on the Tour de France gives them as decent advantage too.

 

On the opposing side - I do think the "big team" card is overplayed a bit. It does help but it isn't some magical force that ensure GT wins year after year.

The natural answer is to be able to have multiple attacking options..but not easy to do.Movistar gave it a bit of a go and did force to chase early on..but then their leaders end up falling apart.And those are highly paid and extremely strong riders.

I dont think more money for the other going to change much right now.Sky has got a very strong grip on things and there is more to come.

 

Teams will need to get smarter and race organisers more inventive..

I think with the right route TD can beat Sky. But he is never going to be a Contador and people will end up calling him boring as well.

In all sports you get these guys like Contador and Froome..they come along and change the game.

[Jase619]

They all dope in some way. Thinking they don't is like believing Cyril will stop the ANC from misappropriating all our tax money.

 

There is 'hope', but there is also a reality.

 

No one is refuting this, must of us just have an issue with the blanket statement that everyone is doped up to their eyeballs, and when you ask for a more reasoned argument or dare I say proof or at least a theory, all you get told is that you are blind and a "skybot" and such. Just waiting for someone to tell me to stay "woke" then the level of ridiculous will be reached in which all credibility to their argument in my mind exits stage left.

[Eldron]

They all dope in some way. Thinking they don't is like believing Cyril will stop the ANC from misappropriating all our tax money.

 

There is 'hope', but there is also a reality.

 

I'm always curious about how they dope in some way. What is your theory?

[Mntboy]

No one is refuting this, must of us just have an issue with the blanket statement that everyone is doped up to their eyeballs, and when you ask for a more reasoned argument or dare I say proof or at least a theory, all you get told is that you are blind and a "skybot" and such. Just waiting for someone to tell me to stay "woke" then the level of ridiculous will be reached in which all credibility to their argument in my mind exits stage left.

Woke = wake = them being brain dead. Or at least their ability to be rational.

 

Sent from my SM-J200H using Tapatalk

[Eldron]

An interesting fact is that Landa although still good has become a little rounder and slower now that he is off the Sky leash.

 

He himself said how he did not enjoy the strict training and diet required during his time at Sky. So he may be happier now but also fatter and slower as a result - One of the duds of TDF 2018 IMO

 

I think in a straight up 3 week tour without all the other factors like the Giro and Vuelta etc. taken out of the mix CF would have beaten GT. So I think Chris was correct in saying that it was going to be very close whether he would be able to pull out the win considering the Giro and the extra week he had to recover and prepare - as feared by him - it was not enough.

 

I think what would now be interesting is Sky's strategy in 2019 - who do they back now? Will they do the other grand tours again and who will target which tour? Things are going to either heat up at Sky or will someone perhaps make a move??

 

Agreed on Landa getting "chubby". I reckon one of the advantages of a big budget is a lot of doctors. I reckon Sky run their riders much closer to the limits than other teams and through using a bunch of doctors and carefully monitored power/energy usage they're able keep them juuuust the right side of not bonking/blowing up. Ironically Skybot is probably a word I'd use - just not in the same context!

 

Agreed also on Froom'es multi GT streak - tough to keep it going.

[Eldron]

The natural answer is to be able to have multiple attacking options..but not easy to do.Movistar gave it a bit of a go and did force to chase early on..but then their leaders end up falling apart.And those are highly paid and extremely strong riders.

I dont think more money for the other going to change much right now.Sky has got a very strong grip on things and there is more to come.

 

Teams will need to get smarter and race organisers more inventive..

I think with the right route TD can beat Sky. But he is never going to be a Contador and people will end up calling him boring as well.

In all sports you get these guys like Contador and Froome..they come along and change the game.

 

I reckon teams need to get smaller. The drop to 8 made very little difference to Skys domination.

 

5 or 6 rider teams will up the excitement at the tour! Not sure it will happen though cos that'll mean unemployment for a bunch of riders. Or more smaller teams in the Pro Tour - that might work...

[Jewbacca]

I'm always curious about how they dope in some way. What is your theory?

In my experience, if there are enough 'fence' cases, consistently, pointing towards something sinister, then something sinister is happening. Especially in cycling.

 

There is enough to constantly point at the sport which means they probably haven't figured out how to catch them yet, or the blind eye is turned.

 

I'm pretty sure there is some super science going into it far beyond that which 'motoman' or Mr ball from Castaway is handing out to our locals.

 

Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but if it smells a little vrot despite still looking good on the outside, it's probably vrot

[Shebeen]

such a fun debate!!

 

to win the tour de france all you need is:

1)a very good rider

2)a very good team

3)some luck (you can "make/influence" some of this)

 

No how did Sky win this, since they got some bad luck on stage 1. They had 2 good riders, and part of being a good team is that the riders didn't work against each other. For GC ambitions they had the BEST team.

 

There's always lots of ifs. like 

If Sunweb didn't take Bling and some sprint guys but rather climbing lieutenants

If TomD didn't do the Giro

If Sunweb didn't send their best support team to the Giro

If TomD didn't crash on the Mur stage

 

Which is why we can wonder. what a great sport!

[Eldron]

In my experience, if there are enough 'fence' cases, consistently, pointing towards something sinister, then something sinister is happening. Especially in cycling.

 

There is enough to constantly point at the sport which means they probably haven't figured out how to catch them yet, or the blind eye is turned.

 

I'm pretty sure there is some super science going into it far beyond that which 'motoman' or Mr ball from Castaway is handing out to our locals.

 

Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but if it smells a little vrot despite still looking good on the outside, it's probably vrot

 

By fence case do you mean abusing TUEs/Chris' Salb case etc?

 

Do you think cycling is cleaner, dirtier or same same?

 

It certainly sounds like you're proper cynical with a flair for the conspiracy theory :-)

[Shebeen]

edit:dbl post

 

I find it interesting that there's no rich french benefactor that wants to "buy" the Yellow Jersey. It costs about the same to run a top14 rugby team as a top cycling team (I'm sure the rugby teams get some cash from TV rights and ticketsales - maybe there's the problem. beyond selling shirts there's no revenue for cycling teams)

 

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/revealed-outlandish-budget-top-14-club/

 

or you can run AG2R for 40 years, or buy Neymar?