W/kg ranges corresponding to PPA road seeding

[Vetplant]

 

Plot of the usable data.

 

The fitted curve is y = 621.78*e^(-1.074x)

 

There are curves that produce a higher R², but I prefer this one because it provides me with more hope   

 

At the risk of setting off another rant from one of the FTP usefulness skeptics, it seems I  need to improve my W/kg by 30% if I'd like to get to A batch    

Biggest real question you need to ask yourself is whether you really WANT to ride A-Batch... Rode it once, through no fault of my own, and I got a serious hiding.

 

Tis nice to have the A-batch number on your back, but things in B and C are much more enjoyable IMHO.

[Kona Kula]

Here is my update after 1 tonner, puts me closer to the curve..

 

before: 3.7w/kg, PPA seeding pre 1 tonner 18.44

After: 3.7w/kg, PPA seeding current 10.31

[Patchelicious]

Yesterday while struggling to breath up a hill and looking at my Watts, I thought about this thread... and realised, that I have my own data. I regularly ride in both CPT and JHB, and chase segments in both areas.

 

So I decided to look at my various PPOs based on location. I then decided to share, at the risk of being mocked, but thought somebody should start. Im not strong enough to worry anybody, so who gives a crap if you share power data.

 

30sec = 840w - JHB

60sec = 691w - JHB

2min = 496w - JHB

3min = 470w - CPT

5min = 419w - CPT

10min = 345 - CPT

20min = 336w - CPT

 

These were all during races or chasing segments, so they are not true exact PPO targeted efforts. (e.g.: 60sec PPO was during 1m10 Strava segment)

 

These were all done outside on Stages Power on the same bike, none of these numbers are from IDTs or Wattbikes. None of these were done on the same ride, and the CPT rides happened between the JHB ones, so it wasn't a factor of getting stronger for either. Spread over a 12 month period.

 

So all I can deduce from my own stats is that being at sea level makes sustained power outputs easier. But short hard efforts doesn't make much difference.

 

Obviously this is not conclusive, but clearly pushing power for longer is easier for ME at sea level.

 

Note: I know that this isn't massively scientific, but at least I am putting some data (my own) behind my statement. This is not a water tight conclusion, just my observation. 

[Kona Kula]

Yesterday while struggling to breath up a hill and looking at my Watts, I thought about this thread... and realised, that I have my own data. I regularly ride in both CPT and JHB, and chase segments in both areas.

 

So I decided to look at my various PPOs based on location. I then decided to share, at the risk of being mocked, but thought somebody should start. Im not strong enough to worry anybody, so who gives a crap if you share power data.

 

30sec = 840w - JHB

60sec = 691w - JHB

2min = 496w - JHB

3min = 470w - CPT

5min = 419w - CPT

10min = 345 - CPT

20min = 336w - CPT

 

These were all during races or chasing segments, so they are not true exact PPO targeted efforts. (e.g.: 60sec PPO was during 1m10 Strava segment)

 

These were all done outside on Stages Power on the same bike, none of these numbers are from IDTs or Wattbikes. None of these were done on the same ride, and the CPT rides happened between the JHB ones, so it wasn't a factor of getting stronger for either. Spread over a 12 month period.

 

So all I can deduce from my own stats is that being at sea level makes sustained power outputs easier. But short hard efforts doesn't make much difference.

 

Obviously this is not conclusive, but clearly pushing power for longer is easier for ME at sea level.

 

Note: I know that this isn't massively scientific, but at least I am putting some data (my own) behind my statement. This is not a water tight conclusion, just my observation. 

I have done FTP test at both. Lived in Jhb for 34 years, Cpt 1 year. My Cape Town FTP is faster. 

 

But I think its because I think its due to Coriolis force, and maybe the mountain.

[Halfdoesyn]

Yesterday while struggling to breath up a hill and looking at my Watts, I thought about this thread... and realised, that I have my own data. I regularly ride in both CPT and JHB, and chase segments in both areas.

 

So I decided to look at my various PPOs based on location. I then decided to share, at the risk of being mocked, but thought somebody should start. Im not strong enough to worry anybody, so who gives a crap if you share power data.

 

30sec = 840w - JHB

60sec = 691w - JHB

2min = 496w - JHB

3min = 470w - CPT

5min = 419w - CPT

10min = 345 - CPT

20min = 336w - CPT

 

These were all during races or chasing segments, so they are not true exact PPO targeted efforts. (e.g.: 60sec PPO was during 1m10 Strava segment)

 

These were all done outside on Stages Power on the same bike, none of these numbers are from IDTs or Wattbikes. None of these were done on the same ride, and the CPT rides happened between the JHB ones, so it wasn't a factor of getting stronger for either. Spread over a 12 month period.

 

So all I can deduce from my own stats is that being at sea level makes sustained power outputs easier. But short hard efforts doesn't make much difference.

 

Obviously this is not conclusive, but clearly pushing power for longer is easier for ME at sea level.

 

Note: I know that this isn't massively scientific, but at least I am putting some data (my own) behind my statement. This is not a water tight conclusion, just my observation. 

 

One explanation one could venture is that the shorter, harder efforts have a higher anaerobic component, in which loss of air pressure at the reef does not matter. But with the sustained efforts will certainly benefit from the coast.

 

In fact, for anaerobic efforts, the lesser wind resistance at the reef should benefit you.

[Ozzie NL]

Yesterday while struggling to breath up a hill and looking at my Watts, I thought about this thread... and realised, that I have my own data. I regularly ride in both CPT and JHB, and chase segments in both areas.

 

So I decided to look at my various PPOs based on location. I then decided to share, at the risk of being mocked, but thought somebody should start. Im not strong enough to worry anybody, so who gives a crap if you share power data.

 

30sec = 840w - JHB

60sec = 691w - JHB

2min = 496w - JHB

3min = 470w - CPT

5min = 419w - CPT

10min = 345 - CPT

20min = 336w - CPT

 

These were all during races or chasing segments, so they are not true exact PPO targeted efforts. (e.g.: 60sec PPO was during 1m10 Strava segment)

 

These were all done outside on Stages Power on the same bike, none of these numbers are from IDTs or Wattbikes. None of these were done on the same ride, and the CPT rides happened between the JHB ones, so it wasn't a factor of getting stronger for either. Spread over a 12 month period.

 

So all I can deduce from my own stats is that being at sea level makes sustained power outputs easier. But short hard efforts doesn't make much difference.

 

Obviously this is not conclusive, but clearly pushing power for longer is easier for ME at sea level.

 

Note: I know that this isn't massively scientific, but at least I am putting some data (my own) behind my statement. This is not a water tight conclusion, just my observation. 

I might be slow but am not quite getting how you get to your conclusions.

All the shorter measurements are JHB based and the longer ones CPT. Hence I am not clear how you compare them and conclude it's easier for you to push higher numbers at sea level. Surely for that you would have to compare similar duration efforts?

[pe3nguin]

I might be slow but am not quite getting how you get to your conclusions.

All the shorter measurements are JHB based and the longer ones CPT. Hence I am not clear how you compare them and conclude it's easier for you to push higher numbers at sea level. Surely for that you would have to compare similar duration efforts?

He compared his best efforts from JHB against his best efforts whilst riding in CPT

 

30 sec JHB v 30 sec CPT 

20 min JHB v 20 min CPT 

 

And then showed us the personal trend for him to improve at the coast, the longer the effort lasts.

[Patchelicious]

One explanation one could venture is that the shorter, harder efforts have a higher anaerobic component, in which loss of air pressure at the reef does not matter. But with the sustained efforts will certainly benefit from the coast.

 

In fact, for anaerobic efforts, the lesser wind resistance at the reef should benefit you.

That could be an explanation.

 

Was thinking about this now, while riding and I think the explanation in my case is even simpler.

 

I live in JHB, and by sheer number of rides, I probably ride 5-6 times more in JHB than in CPT. Therefore on the shorter efforts, where altitude/oxygen doesn't come into play that much, maybe multiple repetitions/pure luck/effort/phycological will power could trump the lack of oxygen and physiological restrictions, but when the efforts start getting longer, there is no way of getting around it and the body simply cannot sustain the same effort as it starts taking strain.... well thats just another possible explanation.... maybe

[Ozzie NL]

He compared his best efforts from JHB against his best efforts whilst riding in CPT

 

30 sec JHB v 30 sec CPT 

20 min JHB v 20 min CPT 

 

And then showed us the personal trend for him to improve at the coast, the longer the effort lasts.

Aah nou sien ek wat jullie se.

[Vetplant]

That could be an explanation.

 

Was thinking about this now, while riding and I think the explanation in my case is even simpler.

 

I live in JHB, and by sheer number of rides, I probably ride 5-6 times more in JHB than in CPT. Therefore on the shorter efforts, where altitude/oxygen doesn't come into play that much, maybe multiple repetitions/pure luck/effort/phycological will power could trump the lack of oxygen and physiological restrictions, but when the efforts start getting longer, there is no way of getting around it and the body simply cannot sustain the same effort as it starts taking strain.... well thats just another possible explanation.... maybe

I think you are close to a plausible explanation there.

 

Your singular set of data actually correlates with what you see in athletics.

 

In athletics, they actually add a comment to a world record for sprinting if it is achieved at an altitude of over 1000m. You definitely get a benefit from the altitude and their duration is short enough that the lack of oxygen isn't a problem. Whereas with medium and long distance runners you will not really perform significantly better at higher altitude because like you said the body needs that oxygen content for extended efforts.

[Fat Boab]

An interesting read which relates the influence of altitude on power, as well as speed during a stage race. the intro refers to other studies.

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143028

 

Results

Power output was similar between the laboratory power-profile and the race simulation, however MMPs for 5–600 s and 15, 60, 240 and 600 s were lower (p ≤ 0.005) during the race at altitude compared with the laboratory power-profile and race simulation, respectively. Furthermore, peak power output and all MMPs were lower (≥ 11.7%, p ≤ 0.001) while racing >3000 m compared with rides completed near sea-level. However, speed associated with MMP 60 and 240 s was greater (p < 0.001) during racing at moderate-high altitude compared with the race simulation near sea-level.

 

Conclusion

A reduction in oxygen availability as altitude increases leads to attenuation of cycling power output during competition. Decrement in cycling power output at altitude does not seem to affect speed which tended to be greater at higher altitudes.

[Escapee..]

That could be an explanation.

 

Was thinking about this now, while riding and I think the explanation in my case is even simpler.

 

I live in JHB, and by sheer number of rides, I probably ride 5-6 times more in JHB than in CPT. Therefore on the shorter efforts, where altitude/oxygen doesn't come into play that much, maybe multiple repetitions/pure luck/effort/phycological will power could trump the lack of oxygen and physiological restrictions, but when the efforts start getting longer, there is no way of getting around it and the body simply cannot sustain the same effort as it starts taking strain.... well thats just another possible explanation.... maybe

 

Could also be that you are more aware of the segments that you are chasing up in Joburg? Doing them more than the ones in Cape Town, you are more "ready" as you approach them and also know what to expect?

[Patchelicious]

Could also be that you are more aware of the segments that you are chasing up in Joburg? Doing them more than the ones in Cape Town, you are more "ready" as you approach them and also know what to expect?

Exactly that!

[Kona Kula]

 

An interesting read which relates the influence of altitude on power, as well as speed during a stage race. the intro refers to other studies.

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143028

 

Results

Power output was similar between the laboratory power-profile and the race simulation, however MMPs for 5–600 s and 15, 60, 240 and 600 s were lower (p ≤ 0.005) during the race at altitude compared with the laboratory power-profile and race simulation, respectively. Furthermore, peak power output and all MMPs were lower (≥ 11.7%, p ≤ 0.001) while racing >3000 m compared with rides completed near sea-level. However, speed associated with MMP 60 and 240 s was greater (p < 0.001) during racing at moderate-high altitude compared with the race simulation near sea-level.

 

Conclusion

A reduction in oxygen availability as altitude increases leads to attenuation of cycling power output during competition. Decrement in cycling power output at altitude does not seem to affect speed which tended to be greater at higher altitudes.

 

 

I think you are close to a plausible explanation there.

 

Your singular set of data actually correlates with what you see in athletics.

 

In athletics, they actually add a comment to a world record for sprinting if it is achieved at an altitude of over 1000m. You definitely get a benefit from the altitude and their duration is short enough that the lack of oxygen isn't a problem. Whereas with medium and long distance runners you will not really perform significantly better at higher altitude because like you said the body needs that oxygen content for extended efforts.

Except here there is no benefit as he is not measuring speed but rather power. His explanation of more efforts at altitude plays true as he has more opportunity to perform. And of course yes oxygen does not play a huge role in short bursts.

[Vetplant]

Except here there is no benefit as he is not measuring speed but rather power. His explanation of more efforts at altitude plays true as he has more opportunity to perform. And of course yes oxygen does not play a huge role in short bursts.

Yes

[Escapee..]

Exactly that!

 

*** so are we back to square one?

 

Need to do be able to do same amount of attempts per segment per region to have a definitive answer?