South Africa - The Land of Inequality

[Chris_]

Many do. My folks did, my other set of parents still do. I do. Come to think of it I am actually paying, directly , post tax income for 3 children’s schooling (not mine).

 

Most others would argue that they pay their taxes which should have been used correctly. I said it on this or another thread, that if or taxes were used correctly on education from 94, the education problem would be much smaller today.

 

Yeah, an easy argument, and a valid one. But we know our government is an impotent one, so rather than going blue in the face pointing out what they should be doing, WE can change lives in the interim. Be the change! (ra ra!)

 

Well done helping your fellow saffers. Unfortunately for us/them we're losing another enabler to a foreign country.... 

[Shebeen]

Here's a thought. If each middle class family had paid for the education of 1 poor child from 1994 until now do you think the country would be any different?

 

Government failure has a devastating double whammy effect on the poor. It keeps them poor AND reduces the ability and will of the middle/top to help the poor.

poor education is not an issue of money.

 

2019 Budget for Basic Education - R262.4B

yes R262 400 000 000

or if we say there are 10m people paying income tax, then that's R50k per taxpayer.

 

We already spend LOADS of money on this.

While about 70% of this goes directly to salaries, we need to get better value for this money,

 

and that's where SADTU comes in. 

they are quite happy with the status quo, and don't even want their members to be graded. it is basically impossible to fire a teacher.

If the only thing Cyril achieves in 5 years is breaking up SADTU's stranglehold on poor education

https://city-press.news24.com/News/break-sadtus-power-20160514

[Eldron]

Here's a thought, every middle class family has been doing that just not for one but many.

 

Now you propose that it gets done again.

 

Just increase taxes shall we?

 

And we type this from locales other than ZA. Wonder why

 

Edit: And still the ANC will blame the apartheid government, you know why, cos its expedient to do so, it deflects blame and it allows them to play the race card. Don't fall for that BS.

We've already established that the government sucks at most thing so no, not another tax.

 

I meant more on a personal level.

 

It's easy to throw your hands up and say I've been paying for everything so I don't need to try any more. It's tougher to actually put your echo hamber aside and help the people that actually need the help.

 

Maybe you're outside SA because of crime/corruption/government incompetence. I'm not.

[Eldron]

poor education is not an issue of money.

 

2019 Budget for Basic Education - R262.4B

yes R262 400 000 000

or if we say there are 10m people paying income tax, then that's R50k per taxpayer.

 

We already spend LOADS of money on this.

While about 70% of this goes directly to salaries, we need to get better value for this money,

 

and that's where SADTU comes in.

they are quite happy with the status quo, and don't even want their members to be graded. it is basically impossible to fire a teacher.

If the only thing Cyril achieves in 5 years is breaking up SADTU's stranglehold on poor education

https://city-press.news24.com/News/break-sadtus-power-20160514

Agreed. The ANC (especially the last 10 years) has broken many, many things in SA.

 

Let's hope they get punished tomorrow. Voter apathy is a kther curse in SA!

[Mojoman]

Agreed. The ANC (especially the last 10 years) has broken many, many things in SA.

 

Let's hope they get punished tomorrow. Voter apathy is a kther curse in SA!

Just like Zanu-PF forever....

ANC forever....

 

[IceCreamMan]

We've already established that the government sucks at most thing so no, not another tax.

 

I meant more on a personal level.

 

It's easy to throw your hands up and say I've been paying for everything so I don't need to try any more. It's tougher to actually put your echo hamber aside and help the people that actually need the help.

 

Maybe you're outside SA because of crime/corruption/government incompetence. I'm not.

 

Crime/corruption/govt incompetence is insidious and has far reaching effects completely unrelated to the above. 

 

I believe most of us probably are ex pats dues to factors related directly to this, just in insidious ways. 

 

but of course not all of us

 

Edit: at some point the middle class get gatvol, esp when a lot of them are marginliased by govt policies, or get told they will be slaughtered, just not yet. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by IceCreamMan

[Chris_]

Just like Zanu-PF forever....

ANC forever....

 

 

Shaper said it earlier, which I agree with - Africa just operates differently. (perhaps South America is similar) I was bemoaning the 'image' of democracy in Africa to someone yesterday.

 

It seems those who want power the loudest, hold on to it for quite simply as long as they want. I think South Africa is certainly not as far gone as other neighbours but the parallels become too close for comfort when these shady tactics are revealed.

[SwissVan]

Google Maps vs Time Magazine Cover

 

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

I was going to say “SUPRISE” when I saw the original post with a nice clean functional looking pool.....

[Mojoman]

Shaper said it earlier, which I agree with - Africa just operates differently. (perhaps South America is similar) I was bemoaning the 'image' of democracy in Africa to someone yesterday.

 

It seems those who want power the loudest, hold on to it for quite simply as long as they want. I think South Africa is certainly not as far gone as other neighbours but the parallels become too close for comfort when these shady tactics are revealed.

Sadly when you are already in power you are able to wield a big stick to remain in power.

 

We are not as bad as Zimbabwe is right now but lets also accept that they had a 13 or 14 year head start on us...Yes, they had a change of management but its still the utterly useless ZANU PF running the show.

 

SA in another 15 years? I truly hope its a great place for all colours...its a great country that you will never get out of your blood.

 

But the reality is it will probably be a great country for a few well connected politicians and no-one else...

 

But lets hold thumbs (and wallets close!), you never know and in this case I certainly don't mind be proven wrong!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Mojoman

[Eldron]

Crime/corruption/govt incompetence is insidious and has far reaching effects completely unrelated to the above.

 

I believe most of us probably are ex pats dues to factors related directly to this, just in insidious ways.

 

but of course not all of us

 

Edit: at some point the middle class get gatvol, esp when a lot of them are marginliased by govt policies, or get told they will be slaughtered, just not yet.

I don't understand the connection... Should we "get gatvol" and stop helping poor people because they're the same colour as the incompetent government? If anything poor people need more help when the government is useless.

 

When the haves get poorer we have to choose cheaper restaurants - when the poor get poorer they starve.

[IceCreamMan]

I don't understand the connection... Should we "get gatvol" and stop helping poor people because they're the same colour as the incompetent government? If anything poor people need more help when the government is useless.

 

When the haves get poorer we have to choose cheaper restaurants - when the poor get poorer they starve.

 

Not sure where race came into it as poverty is not restricted to any specific race. I have seen worse poverty in countries where blacks are not the majority, but I have not seen the same I demand attitude. 

 

The middle class unfortunately generally have options and whether we like it or not get gatvol. We can pretend its not so but sadly we have to face reality. The middle class working stiff is fed up with having to continually pay ...we stole your money yesterday and we demand you pay it back is the ANC government and the middle class have said enough is enough. 

 

As it is , I suspect the 18 000 000 million on Welfare in ZA( a proud ANC election poster I remember seeing on Hendrick potgeiter drive before the last election) are being funded by a variety of means and the payback is in the pipeline, things will get worse. Do we blame the middle class or get them to pay for it again. The middle class in ZA is tapped out. They now leave as their voice is not being heard , merely seen as a cash cow. 

 

Of course, one has a moral duty to help those less fortunate, irrespective of race, but not everyone sees that. I remember seeing that some charities may now not assist certain races, that assistance programs by private corporations must target certain groups or not be eligible for BEE status. 

 

I recall a story about the ant and the locust.... you have probably heard it too. 

 

Suffice to say, the ANC lot deserve to go to jail and rot in hell of how they shafted their own, pretty much like Zim and and and and and ..

[IceCreamMan]

I don't understand the connection... Should we "get gatvol" and stop helping poor people because they're the same colour as the incompetent government? If anything poor people need more help when the government is useless.

 

When the haves get poorer we have to choose cheaper restaurants - when the poor get poorer they starve.

 

The connection is I spose that people need to make decisions about who they vote for, so long as they keep voting ANC their lot will worsen. 

 

So, do we keep helping them and indirectly supporting the ANC as they continue supporting the ANC.

 

Have you looked at the results of huge donor programs like Food aid and world aid and the end result of these? 

 

Donating is not always the answer. Its a short term solution to a long term problem and the problem is not resolved by donations. 

 

The dilemma is that one cannot stand by idly. 

 

Wish I had the answers

[Patchelicious]

Yeah, an easy argument, and a valid one. But we know our government is an impotent one, so rather than going blue in the face pointing out what they should be doing, WE can change lives in the interim. Be the change! (ra ra!)

 

Well done helping your fellow saffers. Unfortunately for us/them we're losing another enabler to a foreign country....

I’ll do my best to carry on supporting them as I don’t do it because I am a resident but because they are special people who were just dealt a bad hand.

 

I hope other people who have moved out of SA also still try and help those in SA who helped them.

[Eldron]

Not sure where race came into it as poverty is not restricted to any specific race. I have seen worse poverty in countries where blacks are not the majority, but I have not seen the same I demand attitude.

 

The middle class unfortunately generally have options and whether we like it or not get gatvol. We can pretend its not so but sadly we have to face reality. The middle class working stiff is fed up with having to continually pay ...we stole your money yesterday and we demand you pay it back is the ANC government and the middle class have said enough is enough.

 

As it is , I suspect the 18 000 000 million on Welfare in ZA( a proud ANC election poster I remember seeing on Hendrick potgeiter drive before the last election) are being funded by a variety of means and the payback is in the pipeline, things will get worse. Do we blame the middle class or get them to pay for it again. The middle class in ZA is tapped out. They now leave as their voice is not being heard , merely seen as a cash cow.

 

Of course, one has a moral duty to help those less fortunate, irrespective of race, but not everyone sees that. I remember seeing that some charities may now not assist certain races, that assistance programs by private corporations must target certain groups or not be eligible for BEE status.

 

I recall a story about the ant and the locust.... you have probably heard it too.

 

Suffice to say, the ANC lot deserve to go to jail and rot in hell of how they shafted their own, pretty much like Zim and and and and and ..

The race correlation happened after a pattern emerged of me highlighting the plight of poor blacks with you blaming the government and saying the middle class were gatvol. If I was wrong my apologies.

 

The only people blaming the middle class are politicians. Perhaps it's time you followed your own advice and stop believing the BS. What the government says and wants and what the average poor black South Africa says and wants are two vastly different things. Don't allow what a handful of ANC/EFF members say to become your perception of all poor black people in SA.

[dev null]

My eldest son who is now first year student at CPUT has already decided that he is going overseas as soon as possible, and that he is not gonna stay here to beg for a job with AA and BBEEE policies still in place 25 years after apartheid supposedly ended.

[Eldron]

The connection is I spose that people need to make decisions about who they vote for, so long as they keep voting ANC their lot will worsen.

 

So, do we keep helping them and indirectly supporting the ANC as they continue supporting the ANC.

 

Have you looked at the results of huge donor programs like Food aid and world aid and the end result of these?

 

Donating is not always the answer. Its a short term solution to a long term problem and the problem is not resolved by donations.

 

The dilemma is that one cannot stand by idly.

 

Wish I had the answers

I never said donating was the answer. I said education was the answer. That and self enabling progranmes. I've been a Qhubeka supporter for years. I figure that is the right way to help people help themselvrs.