South Africa - The Land of Inequality

[Shebeen]

Accumulated under apartheid’s unequal policies.

 

So long as this rhetoric is spewed it will never get better.

 

ZA govt policies to blame a quarter of a century in and the gap has widened ...yes indeed. Widened. The backlash will be felt by the haves irrespective of color. That’s the ticking time bomb and all these riots over the last couple of years the manifestations of it.

how's this for a leap of faith?

apartheid policies vs ANC post 94 policies 

 

Which one of them has been bad for south africa*?

(hint below)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*it is ok to say that both have been bad, it's not a multiple choice question.

[Patchelicious]

We're too far into petty semantics here. The headline remains factually true.

While the headline is factually true. How it is being used to create a narrative, mostly by politicians, is not.

 

The poor are not still poor because of the people of the left of that road. They are still living in poverty because government has failed to uplift the poor, jobs, public works, education etc.

 

It’s not denying the inequality, nor effects of our past. Privilege is a consequence not the causation.

[dev null]

While the headline is factually true. How it is being used to create a narrative, mostly by politicians, is not.

 

The poor are not still poor because of the people of the left of that road. They are still living in poverty because government has failed to uplift the poor, jobs, public works, education etc.

 

It’s not denying the inequality, nor effects of our past. Privilege is a consequence not the causation.

 

That, and to make it worse, the people on the left are mostly lower to middle income tradesmen, government officials, miners and railway workers. I would hardly classify the people of Primrose as wealthy. Overtaxed most definitely.

[Stretch]

While the headline is factually true. How it is being used to create a narrative, mostly by politicians, is not.

 

The poor are not still poor because of the people of the left of that road. They are still living in poverty because government has failed to uplift the poor, jobs, public works, education etc.

 

It’s not denying the inequality, nor effects of our past. Privilege is a consequence not the causation.

Don't discount the role that the people on the left have to play in the upliftment on the people on the right. This would require them to part with more of their disposable monthly income in most cases... Which many aren't prepared to do.

[Patchelicious]

Don't discount the role that the people on the left have to play in the upliftment on the people on the right. This would require them to part with more of their disposable monthly income in most cases... Which many aren't prepared to do.

I’m not discounting it. I’m saying politicians and media put a disproportionate amount of blame on them.

 

They aren’t doing this for upliftment either, they do it because it sells newspapers and it blame shifts for a failing government.

[The Ouzo]

Don't discount the role that the people on the left have to play in the upliftment on the people on the right. This would require them to part with more of their disposable monthly income in most cases... Which many aren't prepared to do.

you are falsely assuming the people on the left have disposable income.

[Stretch]

you are falsely assuming the people on the left have disposable income.

The middle income always has disposable income... It's more a case of what they are prepared to sacrifice to uplift others through what we are prepared to pay for labour and services. We selfishly hold onto our "lifestyle" at the expense of others because there is nothing in place by the government to set standards for labour and associated services

[Patchelicious]

The middle income always has disposable income... It's more a case of what they are prepared to sacrifice to uplift others. We selfishly hold onto our "lifestyle" at the expense of others

You are not going to convince a middle class that the privatisation of social upliftment is the way to go when the taxes they pay are being squandered.

 

The middle class of South Africa are not the causation of the extreme poverty or the inequality.

 

Should they do something to help, yes, but asking somebody to help when they are being branded the enemy is not an ideal way of achieving a positive outcome.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Don't discount the role that the people on the left have to play in the upliftment on the people on the right. This would require them to part with more of their disposable monthly income in most cases... Which many aren't prepared to do.

Erm... Hate to rain on your parade, but given proper govt spending and a nominal increase in marginal tax rates it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. It definitely is governments duty and role to do the upliftment. Majority of middle income earners (if they have disposable cash) are jaded and won't contribute more when so much already goes to waste. If it didn't go to waste, different story.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The middle income always has disposable income... It's more a case of what they are prepared to sacrifice to uplift others. We selfishly hold onto our "lifestyle" at the expense of others

Bollocks. Just because people have different levels of income and different circumstances it doesn't mean that they automatically have disposable income to put towards other people's benefit when so much is already being squandered. Disposable means just that. Disposable. You'd be surprised how many people actually don't have it.

 

Lifestyle audits to lift other people up, when tax should be going towards it already? Nope. That's a one way ticket to socialist principles. Whose "preferred lifestyle" are we talking about? Yours? Mine? The miners'? Zuma's?

[Stretch]

You are not going to convince a middle class the that privatisation of social upliftment is the way to go when the taxes they pay are being squandered.

 

The middle class of South Africa are not the causation of the extreme poverty or the inequality.

 

Should they do something to help, yes, but asking somebody to help when they are being branded the enemy is not an ideal way of achieving a positive outcome.

Agreed.. My point is there is absolutely no policy in place to assist in this process. You can still go down to your local downtown street corner and pick up a day labourer for 150 bucks...Willing buyer, willing seller.... Criminal. Government should be doing more to prevent this from happening. Sure, the numbers will decrease in the short term, but people will realise they need labour and pay. We've been getting away with cheap labor for too long. The net result is that that person has more disposable income to uplift his or her family. Maybe improve the opportunities for their children.

 

Now I realise it's not as simple as that.. But the point I'm trying to make is that exploitation of labor is a relic of the old government that the current govt has done nothing to remedy. They should all be shot for that

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be cognisant of other people's plights, but the middle class isn't responsible for the lower class's suffering or position. That's squarely on governments shoulders as a result of decades of maltreatment (pre and post 94)

[Guest]

Coming from Kwazulu natal I have noticed how the Indian community here have prospered. In a generation or two, under adverse conditions, they have built up schools, universities and sports grounds. Businesses have flourished under  them. From primarily indentured labourers who were also dispossesed  of their lands, we have leading surgeons, engineers etc.

 

They have made themselves a success story.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Agreed.. My point is there is absolutely no policy in place to assist in this process. You can still go down to your local downtown street corner and pick up a day labourer for 150 bucks...Willing buyer, willing seller.... Criminal. Government should be doing more to prevent this from happening. Sure, the numbers will decrease in the short term, but people will realise they need labour and pay. We've been getting away with cheap labor for too long. The net result is that that person has more disposable income to uplift his or her family. Maybe improve the opportunities for their children.

 

Now I realise it's not as simple as that.. But the point I'm trying to make is that exploitation of labor is a relic of the old government that the current govt has done nothing to remedy. They should all be shot for that

Nope. That day labourer is still trying to make the most of his situation, and that rate is his going rate based on the type of labour and the market he's competing in. Setting a minimum level that people need to charge above for their labour is and always has been a recipe for disaster. Fewer people get hired overall, a black market rises up and charges even less for the same thing and we're back to step one again.

 

I agree that the level of pay is disastrous, but it won't get better by putting a floor on the price that the labourers are allowed to charge for their time.

 

Formal employment, yes. 100% agree with you on that, cos at least then you're protected from a CCMA / employee perspective. Informal employment, they take what they can get.

 

Edit: agreed fully with the knock on effect of a higher income, in SOME cases. This is where generational wealth comes into play, and is extremely powerful

 

And

 

Oversupply of labour is the reason for the rock bottom price of day labourer pricing. Fewer of them = higher average cost due to supply / demand curve.

[Stretch]

Bollocks. Just because people have different levels of income and different circumstances it doesn't mean that they automatically have disposable income to put towards other people's benefit when so much is already being squandered. Disposable means just that. Disposable. You'd be surprised how many people actually don't have it.

 

Lifestyle audits to lift other people up, when tax should be going towards it already? Nope. That's a one way ticket to socialist principles. Whose "preferred lifestyle" are we talking about? Yours? Mine? The miners'? Zuma's?

Of course I'm not saying everyone. .. But there are lots and lots of people who do who take advantage of the incompetencies of the government because the government has done nothing to enforce anything. And my point of specific to the exploitation of cheap labor as per my reply to patch above.

[MTBeer]

Agreed.. My point is there is absolutely no policy in place to assist in this process. You can still go down to your local downtown street corner and pick up a day labourer for 150 bucks...Willing buyer, willing seller.... Criminal. Government should be doing more to prevent this from happening. Sure, the numbers will decrease in the short term, but people will realise they need labour and pay. We've been getting away with cheap labor for too long. The net result is that that person has more disposable income to uplift his or her family. Maybe improve the opportunities for their children.

 

Now I realise it's not as simple as that.. But the point I'm trying to make is that exploitation of labor is a relic of the old government that the current govt has done nothing to remedy. They should all be shot for that

the exploitation of labour is a result of the over-supply of labour...