Race indemnities - signing away our lives, inheritances, allez?

[maidenmole]

After a set of unfortunate and dangerous occurrences at a very poorly organised event recently, I'm now looking at event indemnities and waivers a little more closely. Is it just me, or are these not ENTIRELY favoured to event organisers REGARDLESS of their organisational capabilities and the commitments they should be making to us as riders to put on an enjoyable and safe event?

 

I'm yet to see where event organisers place in writing what they commit to us as consumers and participants? Surely this would balance out what we indemnify them against?

 

So my questions are:

1. Has anyone been refused participation by an organiser at event registration for not signing?
2. Has anyone been refused participation for redacting clauses such as below?

Here's en example from one I've just been asked to sign for an upcoming event:

I agree to release, indemnify and hold harmless the Event Organisers, its officers, employees, agents, volunteers, contractors, public bodies, landholders and sponsors, from and against any and all claims, demands, right or cause of action, suits, expenses, costs and proceedings of any nature whatsoever which may be made by me or on my behalf or by other parties for or in respect of or arising out of any injury, loss, damage or death caused to me or my property as a result of my entry or participation in the Event whether by negligence, breach of contract or in any way whatsoever. 

[The Ouzo]

I'm seeing a lot more of these blanket type indemnities around.

 

Recently my daughters school sent one out for photos. Basically stating they can use the photos taken of your child where, when, however they like, for as long as they like without having to get your approval.

Sounds ok, little johnny will be famous. But what about the other side of the coin, maybe they use little Johnny's face to represent a bully etc.

[seven]

Well...

 

No indemnity form can/will indemnify the organiser against negligence.

 

Land owners/local authorities/etc often want proof from the organisers that riders have signed indemnity forms.  Event insurance will also insist on this.

 

Organisers won't. or at least should not allow participation without an indemnity form.

[Bateleur1]

I'm seeing a lot more of these blanket type indemnities around.

 

Recently my daughters school sent one out for photos. Basically stating they can use the photos taken of your child where, when, however they like, for as long as they like without having to get your approval.

Sounds ok, little johnny will be famous. But what about the other side of the coin, maybe they use little Johnny's face to represent a bully etc.

 

He He.  That school is sure not in the EU where they introduced new privacy laws beginning of March this year,  which is "pain in the butt" strict

[maidenmole]

I nested issue is whether even organisers take out liability insurance. If they do, then they're preparing for these signed indemnities to be ignored/challenged in court in the event of something serious.

 

But this is not the type of question we ask organisers. We press enter, pay and go ride with massive faith in them knowing what they're doing to a standard that won't put as at anymore risk than what we're already going to face.

[maidenmole]

Here's a beeeyaddaful one from the same form quoted above:

 

"I acknowledge and understand that whilst participating in the Event: There may be no or inadequate facilities for treatment or transport of me if I am injured."

[Donovan Le Cok]

Well...

 

No indemnity form can/will indemnify the organizer against negligence.

 

Land owners/local authorities/etc often want proof from the organisers that riders have signed indemnity forms.  Event insurance will also insist on this.

 

Organisers won't. or at least should not allow participation without an indemnity form.

 

This.

[Grease_Monkey]

Well...

 

No indemnity form can/will indemnify the organiser against negligence.

 

Land owners/local authorities/etc often want proof from the organisers that riders have signed indemnity forms. Event insurance will also insist on this.

 

Organisers won't. or at least should not allow participation without an indemnity form.

Very true. It's like getting someone to sign a contract saying they will work for an amount below minimum wage - the contract will be deemed unlawful in court. You as a participant can always sue for negligence regardless of indemnities signed - someone simply cannot get you to sign away your lawful rights.

[seven]

I nested issue is whether even organisers take out liability insurance. If they do, then they're preparing for these signed indemnities to be ignored/challenged in court in the event of something serious.

 

But this is not the type of question we ask organisers. We press enter, pay and go ride with massive faith in them knowing what they're doing to a standard that won't put as at anymore risk than what we're already going to face.

 

If they are complying with the Sport & Recreation Act, they must have insurance, and must comply with all the requirements of the act wrt organising an event (public liability, safety officer, safety plan, SAPS approval to host, etc. etc. etc.)

[thisismyotherbike]

 

 

I agree to release, indemnify and hold harmless the Event Organisers, its officers, employees, agents, volunteers, contractors, public bodies, landholders and sponsors, from and against any and all claims, demands, right or cause of action, suits, expenses, costs and proceedings of any nature whatsoever which may be made by me or on my behalf or by other parties for or in respect of or arising out of any injury, loss, damage or death caused to me or my property as a result of my entry or participation in the Event whether by negligence, breach of contract or in any way whatsoever. 

 

 

 

Here's a beeeyaddaful one from the same form quoted above:

 

"I acknowledge and understand that whilst participating in the Event: There may be no or inadequate facilities for treatment or transport of me if I am injured."

 

 

Well...

 

No indemnity form can/will indemnify the organiser against negligence.

 

Land owners/local authorities/etc often want proof from the organisers that riders have signed indemnity forms.  Event insurance will also insist on this.

 

Organisers won't. or at least should not allow participation without an indemnity form.

 

I also understood that negligence is always cause for recourse and can't be signed away, but they ask you to sign this anyway?  No/inadequate facilities or transportation/treatment in case of injury sure sounds incredibly negligent!

 

All this seems contradictory?

[ChrisF]

Different question - what do YOU want from the organisers ?

 

 

Why do you have an issue with signing the indemnity ?  

[bikebloke]

This.

^^^ that

 

indemnities forms dont really mean squat -

[ChrisF]

Here's a beeeyaddaful one from the same form quoted above:

 

"I acknowledge and understand that whilst participating in the Event: There may be no or inadequate facilities for treatment or transport of me if I am injured."

 

Have a look at the other extreme - motorsport.

 

There are more than one ambulance on duty.  IF it happens that both leave site with patients racing is STOPPED until another ambulance is on site ....

 

 

We HAVE all seen the medics at the various cycling events.  But if the medic has to race off to hospital with a rider .... do we want them to stop the event mid-race ?  HOW ???

 

 

Or do we expect them to book out 2 or 3 or 4 ambulances for each event ?

 

 

And lets be realistic ... if you break your leg high up in the mountain ... HOW is the ambulance going to get to you ?

 

 

IF we push too far, the only safe answer is to stop these events .....

 

 

 

I signs these forms, with the UNDERSTANDING that they take "all practicable" steps to ensure my safety and health .... but also with the understanding that this IS a high risk sport and sh!t happens !

[IceCreamMan]

One can always hold an organizer responsible for negligence....that is well within yr rights as an individual.

 

Good luck with it though, proving negligence ain’t easy and will take years. Rather make sure yr personal insurances and medical aid is paid up.

[seven]

^^^ that

 

indemnities forms dont really mean squat -

They do.

 

If your bike gets stolen at an event - would you like to sue the organisers?

If you fall? If they use your photo? etc etc etc…

 

It does not cover against negligence, and that cannot be signed away (as stated by several)

[Spinnekop]

Have a look at the other extreme - motorsport.

 

There are more than one ambulance on duty.  IF it happens that both leave site with patients racing is STOPPED until another ambulance is on site ....

 

 

We HAVE all seen the medics at the various cycling events.  But if the medic has to race off to hospital with a rider .... do we want them to stop the event mid-race ?  HOW ???

 

 

Or do we expect them to book out 2 or 3 or 4 ambulances for each event ?

 

 

And lets be realistic ... if you break your leg high up in the mountain ... HOW is the ambulance going to get to you ?

 

 

IF we push too far, the only safe answer is to stop these events .....

 

 

 

I signs these forms, with the UNDERSTANDING that they take "all practicable" steps to ensure my safety and health .... but also with the understanding that this IS a high risk sport and **** happens !

Then state THAT in the indemnity.

 

Not make me sign "All" my rights away.