K2C & e-bikes

['Dale]

uhmm OP asked a question about whether he could ride his e bike

 

someone replied to say rules on the site said no

 

that was last post from OP

 

question asked and answered

 

never saw him demanding never saw him arguing

 

seems people saw this as another opportunity to vent their views

 

but imho he is accepting of the reply

 

 

[marko35s]

I'm all for more people to start cycling, no matter what the deal. 

 

We should see way more people like this in our sport, it will change their lives more than you and I can imagine. An ebike makes this seemingly impossible task a more achievable reality.

 

http://ernestgagnon.blogspot.com/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gCgC68yX-0k/Tq_aWrwNlQI/AAAAAAAAEdo/wnt9wYYrLRA/s728/DSC_0134.JPG

 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2012/10/09/162586325/instead-of-surgery-man-pedals-off-the-pounds

 

 

To get back to the OP's question, I don't see him affecting any racer's race so to deny him the chance to enter "just because" is just really being selfish.

I'm a very average driver with a very **** car but I want to be allowed to race my car in F1, anybody that tries to stop me is just really being selfish.

Why doesn't the guy in your example just get on a bike and ride, then next week ride a bit more until he is in good enough shape to ride the race without having to resort to outside assistance?

[BigDL]

I'm all for more people to start cycling, no matter what the deal.

 

We should see way more people like this in our sport, it will change their lives more than you and I can imagine. An ebike makes this seemingly impossible task a more achievable reality.

 

http://ernestgagnon.blogspot.com/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gCgC68yX-0k/Tq_aWrwNlQI/AAAAAAAAEdo/wnt9wYYrLRA/s728/DSC_0134.JPG

 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2012/10/09/162586325/instead-of-surgery-man-pedals-off-the-pounds

 

 

To get back to the OP's question, I don't see him affecting any racer's race so to deny him the chance to enter "just because" is just really being selfish.

That’s the point - ebiking is a different sport. I am all for that guy, or anyone else, getting an ebike and going out and enjoying the trails, just call it what it is, and it ain’t cycling.

 

He is not getting into “our” sport. He is getting into ebike riding, which is something very different. Still good, but not cycling as we understand it.

[DieselnDust]

I'm a very average driver with a very **** car but I want to be allowed to race my car in F1, anybody that tries to stop me is just really being selfish.

Why doesn't the guy in your example just get on a bike and ride, then next week ride a bit more until he is in good enough shape to ride the race without having to resort to outside assistance?

 

 

K2C is hardly the F1 of mtb marathon so what exactly is your point?

[marko35s]

K2C is hardly the F1 of mtb marathon so what exactly is your point?

Could be I am sick of people whining when they don't immediately get what they want.

Possibly.

[Grease_Monkey]

FFS! F1 cars and go karts don't ride the same tracks at the same time - it simply does not work. E-Bikes are a shitload faster than normal bikes even with the michelen man piloting it - anyone who doesn't see the potential issues with that is either blind or misinformed and needs to get on an ebike and experience just how different (and how much faster) they are to normal bikes. Ride them to your heart's content, just don't do it in a mtb race - and don't call it cycling - it's not cycling.

[DieselnDust]

Oh don't be such a drama Queen. Ebikes and pedal bikes aren't that different so once again over dramatising just makes you sound foolish.

Ebikes may be capable of 50km/hr but they won't go very far.

The rider will have to be very circumspect with how they use the battery to make the range.

 

Be part of the solution man

[Coolspin]

As per Eldrons wisdom:

 

If event organisers feel there is a demand for such a category then:

Separate category.

Different start times, day for that matter.

Untimed.

Not mixing it up with non ebike riders.

 

Dont see how non ebikers would be affected at all by such a situation,

Really no downside.

So no matter how anti ebike some people are for all the reasons that they put forward it kind of negates their argument if it doesnt affect them.

[eddy]

Be part of the solution man

 

 

Ok, let's try to find a solution.

 

Give us a draft set of rules for e-bikes in mass participation bicycle races so we can all work towards something that will work.

[eddy]

As per Eldrons wisdom:

 

If event organisers feel there is a demand for such a category then:

Separate category.

Different start times, day for that matter.

Untimed.

Not mixing it up with non ebike riders.

 

Dont see how non ebikers would be affected at all by such a situation,

Really no downside.

So no matter how anti ebike some people are for all the reasons that they put forward it kind of negates their argument if it doesnt affect them.

 

no problem with this.

[DieselnDust]

no problem with this.

That's a good starting point.

Would need hardware categories as well based on Watt hours.

I don't have a principal issue with these bikes being In the same event as me either.

Already I have to wait at the first single track for all the modern geo bikes to be walked through the single-track

[BigDL]

As per Eldrons wisdom:

 

If event organisers feel there is a demand for such a category then:

Separate category.

Different start times, day for that matter.

Untimed.

Not mixing it up with non ebike riders.

 

Dont see how non ebikers would be affected at all by such a situation,

Really no downside.

So no matter how anti ebike some people are for all the reasons that they put forward it kind of negates their argument if it doesnt affect them.

What if the landowners don’t allow motorbikes in their land that the race goes through

[Grease_Monkey]

Oh don't be such a drama Queen. Ebikes and pedal bikes aren't that different so once again over dramatising just makes you sound foolish.

Ebikes may be capable of 50km/hr but they won't go very far.

The rider will have to be very circumspect with how they use the battery to make the range.

 

Be part of the solution man

Go read my extensive number of posts in the "do e-bikes belong on the mountain?" thread. You will see that I'm very pro e-bike - just not in races. So once again, stop making assumption about someone's stance without knowing the whole story.

 

I won't spew my whole essay on why I don't think they belong in races, it's just the same arguments over and over again.

 

E-bikes and pedal bikes are very different - not even close to the same thing. You pedal both, but as soon as you add a motor to a bike you make it something very different. Cycling and e-biking are different sports - both have their place, and both awesome in their own right, just don't tell me they belong in the same events.

 

My views on the whole e-bike thing below, copied from other thread because I'm not gonna write the whole thing out again...

 

Quick ride review...

 

 

 

My Stumpy's frame is cracked, and my hardtail's wheels are being rebuilt, so I am currently without a bike. So this weekend I borrowed my dad's turbo-levo. Went for a ride with my wife yesterday, she is unfit at the moment (slower than me on a normal bike), and is new to cycling so I rode with her the whole time. Needless to say, I thought the e-bike was a complete waste as I put in literally ZERO effort to get to the top of Helderberg (at my wife's pace).

 

 

 

This morning I decided to go see what the bike is really capable of as my only reference was yesterday and a few minutes here and there on the bike a couple of times before. I headed out to Helderberg and put the bike on Eco mode (with 40%) assistance. I got used to the way the bike felt very quickly as my normal bike is a Stumpy and the levo is pretty much a Stumpy with a motor.

 

 

 

This thing is SERIOUSLY fun, and FAST! I got up the mountain in about 30mins compared to my normal 55mins or so (faster than anyone else on Strava - don't worry I did mark this as an e-bike ride so the times won't go onto leader boards). The thing I like though was not so much how fast I could get up the mountain, it was how much fun I could have doing it - where I am normally panting and gasping for air I was cruising up, launching over roots, wheelying, and just fooling around.

 

 

 

And yes, you can fool yourself by cruising up the mountain slowly - but you can also push hard and get the same workout in as you would on your normal bike - you'll just cover twice the distance.

 

 

 

On the way down I was a bit frustrated because the clutch on the derailleur is worn out and I kept dropping the chain, but from the few times I could open up and let go of the brakes I realised that the extra weight gives you a serious amount of stability. Jumps are a bit harder, but still possible - it might just take some getting used to. I found the Guide R brakes to be lacking in power - I would spec some 4 pot callipers on a bike like this. The tyres (Maxxis Ikon+ and Rekon+ were not aggressive enough and I would replace with Spaz Butcher 2.8" immediately if this was my bike). Other than that the spec is bang on - the Yari fork is great, and the fox float is good. GX 11 speed is also good, but I'd prefer the 7 speed e-bike drivetrain - 11 gears on a bike like this is just not necessary at all.

 

 

 

So bottom line - what's my opinion on e-bikes (based on the Spaz Turbo Levo Comp alu version)? I LOVE THEM. I am not going to be replacing my bike with it - ever. BUT, if I had the spare cash lying around I would want one for the following reasons:

 

 

 

- I can do 2 runs of Helderberg in an hour - top to bottom, where I can usually only do one. Ideal when you only have short periods of time. And yes, when gassing it up it is just as much a workout as a normal bike - my heart rate was very high.

 

- It makes the climbs enjoyable (in a different way than being in the pain cave)

 

- You can load the bike up with every aggressive and heavy part your heart desires because weight doesn't matter.

 

- IF I were ever to get an e-bike it would be one with a ton of travel - a coil shock and fork, seriously aggressive tyres, and some monster brakes.

 

Why would I not get one?

 

- They can get you into trouble - you do single track at twice the speed you usually do and can run out of skill before you blink. I don't think these bikes belong in the hands of beginners.

 

- Unless all your friends also have e-bikes you are going to be riding on your own.

 

- It's not as flickable and fun when the trail points down.

 

- They are expensive to maintain - chains need to be replaced often, and batteries go for 14k a pop - you will cry when it comes time to replace yours.

 

- Limited time spent on the bike because of battery life (although this isn't too much of a drawback as I would want the bike for when I only have an hour or two to ride)

 

- People judge you - seriously - people look at me like I just ran over their dog when I ride past them.

 

 

 

Anyway, that's my 2c worth. I can't wait to get my bikes back so I can ride again, but in the mean time I will be enjoying my dad's Levo!

 

 

 

EDIT: My 2c on e-bikes in races...

 

Should NOT be allowed ever! Even in their own categories. I did a race a while back where this one lady was on an e-bike, she overtook me on every hill, then we would get to single track downhill and she went snails pace - caused massive bottle neck and would not let anyone pass. Once I eventually got past it was fine... but then on the next hill she comes cruising past and we sit with the same situation on the next bit of single track all over again.

 

If people wanna race e-bikes, they should have their own events, on at the very least, their own routes that are not shared with people on normal bikes.

[DieselnDust]

Blah blah blah.

 

The same problem exists with people participating in conventional push bike events. Some light weight cruises past on the hills then holds you up on the descents. You want them to enter a different event to you too?

That's an attitude problem and it makes no difference what bike that person is riding.

If they have their own category then so what. If not then surely your superior technical riding ability will help you pass them.

 

So I'm still not seeing the problem

Give them their own category

[Eldron]

Blah blah blah.

 

The same problem exists with people participating in conventional push bike events. Some light weight cruises past on the hills then holds you up on the descents. You want them to enter a different event to you too?

That's an attitude problem and it makes no difference what bike that person is riding.

If they have their own category then so what. If not then surely your superior technical riding ability will help you pass them.

 

So I'm still not seeing the problem

Give them their own category event

 

Problem solved!

[Grease_Monkey]

Blah blah blah.

 

The same problem exists with people participating in conventional push bike events. Some light weight cruises past on the hills then holds you up on the descents. You want them to enter a different event to you too?

That's an attitude problem and it makes no difference what bike that person is riding.

If they have their own category then so what. If not then surely your superior technical riding ability will help you pass them.

 

So I'm still not seeing the problem

Give them their own category

No not at all - anyone on a pedal powered bike got there on their own steam, and that's fair game. Besides, even the slowest riders in most stage races/marathon events have some level of skill that came along with the hours spent preparing for the event. E-bikes allow anyone to compete in pretty much any event. The guy on his pedal powered bike that's a bit slower on the techy bits is not the same as the ebiker that's on his bike for the second time and passing A batchers on the hills and then holding them back on the descents.

 

Racing/events is a big deal to some, and it seems like anyone that half takes their position in a race seriously is marked as silly or egotistical - I just don't get that mentality. E-bikes in races do pose issues, and not acknowledging it doesn't make those issues dissapear. I personaly don't care about my position at a race, but a buddy of mine that does take his racing seriously has had the experience of a beginner on an e-bike nearly taking him out and costing him a race - if that was me I wouldn't be happy about it - and no it wouldn't have happenned with a rider on a normal bike because the riders up at the front on normal bikes have experience and at least some level of skill.

 

Allowing e-bikes into races changes the nature of a race completely. The whole atmosphere around e-biking is one of enjoying the ride and getting out (well that's what is said), if that's the case why bother with races?