The Veganism Thread

[Gen]

Then she needs to do a bit of research, because your/her statement is misinformed. Most of the staples of a whole food plant-based diet is zero VAT rated in SA and cheap as chips. If you want to live off of goji berries and meat replacement then it can be expensive.

 

Also, I’m assuming if your wife is in private practice, then she’s not consulting with the poorest of the poor, so I can’t see how a whole food plant-based is out of reach for her patients.

 

Have her read the BROAD study. Mandatory reading for any dietician.

You are so out of touch with reality in SA.

 

 

Do you know what the vast majority of people even earn in SA...cheap as chips is relevant to what the lower income bracket earns..not to what you think is cheap.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Gen

[Odinson]

Sounds like denying yourself something. I get the marketing an understand there is a commercial need for it. Like a catholic chastising himself. Guess these are vegans that eventually lapse. True vegans would have no need for these things.

 

I'm more than happy to ''deny myself'' if it means acting in accordance with my morals and ethics. This world can do with less hedonism.  

 

Of course people lapse. Being a vegan in a non-vegan world is not always easy, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. 

[Odinson]

To those who are taking issue with the cost of a whole food plant-based diet, have any of you been on a such a diet to investigate cost thereof? 

 

Personally, I took 30-35% off of my food bill. 

[Odinson]

Huge meta-analysis evaluating effects of a vegan compared to an omnivorous diet on cardio-metabolic risk factors. 

 

 

 

 

Results

40 studies with 12 619 vegans and 179 630 omnivores were included. From food frequency questionnaires in 28 studies, vegans compared to omnivores consumed less energy (-11%, 95% confidence interval -14 to -8) and less saturated fat (- 51%, CI -57 to -45). Compared to controls vegans had a lower body mass index (-1.72 kg/m2, CI -2.30 to -1.16), waist circumference (-2.35 cm, CI -3.93 to -0.76), low density lipoprotein cholesterol (-0.49 mmol/L CI -0.62 to -0.36), triglycerides (-0.14 mmol/L, CI -0.24 to -0.05), fasting blood glucose (-0.23 mmol/, CI -0.35 to -0.10), and systolic (-2.56 mmHg, CI -4.66 to -0.45) and diastolic blood pressure (-1.33 mmHg, CI -2.67 to -0.02), p<0.0001 for all. Results were consistent for studies with < and ≥ 50 vegans, and published before and after 2010. However in several large studies from Taiwan a vegan diet was not associated with favourable cardio-metabolic risk factors compared to the control diets.

 

 

 

Conclusion

In most countries a vegan diet is associated with a more favourable cardio- metabolic profile compared to an omnivorous diet.

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209086

Edited December 30, 2018 by Odinson

[corriekuilder]

To those who are taking issue with the cost of a whole food plant-based diet, have any of you been on a such a diet to investigate cost thereof?

 

Personally, I took 30-35% off of my food bill.

Ok, not looking for a argument, but have you considered the carbon footprint that is left due to transport ect for the veggies ect that you buy? Large scale production on farms, then moving the veggies ect to the market or supermarket, where you buy it. So if you take that into consideration, the amount of greenhouse gasses released just to transport veggies and fruits, also contribute to pollutionalong with the methane gas released by cows. But anyway, each to its own.

[Patchelicious]

Guys just stop it, there is nothing wrong with veganism, it’s perfect!

[Goodbadugly]

"However in several large studies from Taiwan a vegan diet was not associated with favourable cardio-metabolic risk factors compared to the control diets."

This quote was from the study YOU quoted.

One of the things you learn when you study for a DEGREE is to read the complete study. Not just snippets that suit your religion.

When you do a masters degree you learn to quote only review articles and editorials. Otherwise the professors will rip you apart.

A meta analysis is also worth it. Especially if you read the "However" part.

[corriekuilder]

Guys just stop it, there is nothing wrong with veganism, it’s perfect!

lol, jip, much like crossfit....

[PhilipV]

Guys just stop it, there is nothing wrong with veganism, it’s perfect!

lol, jip, much like crossfit....

If a vegan crossfits and vapes, what does he talk about first? Edited December 30, 2018 by PhilipV

[Patchelicious]

If a vegan crossfits and vapes, what does he talk about first?

Atheism

[Uni]

To those who are taking issue with the cost of a whole food plant-based diet, have any of you been on a such a diet to investigate cost thereof?

 

Personally, I took 30-35% off of my food bill.

My 5c. I've been ovo-lacto about 15 years. Initially goal was to go vegan, decided nah. And I'm an unhealthy veggie..cheese and all that.

But, while I don't agree with Odie's approach necessarily, I do agree that plant based basics are much more affordable, things like beans and legumes. A head of broccoli is still cheaper than a frozen chicken.

 

Thanks to the millenials and the trend, the availability of alternative foods and restaurants is on the rise, and it is here when the pricing is out of reach for the average SA consumer.

 

Things like nuts, are expensive, supplements if required are expensive.

But with effort, doable.

[Odinson]

Ok, not looking for a argument, but have you considered the carbon footprint that is left due to transport ect for the veggies ect that you buy? Large scale production on farms, then moving the veggies ect to the market or supermarket, where you buy it. So if you take that into consideration, the amount of greenhouse gasses released just to transport veggies and fruits, also contribute to pollutionalong with the methane gas released by cows. But anyway, each to its own.

Please refer to my post stating that a vegan diet is carbon neutral.

 

Of course it has a footprint. Everything does! However, study after study has found that the easiest/most significant way for Joe Soap to reduce their carbon footprint is to switch to a plant-based diet.

 

If you go through this and the environmental thread you’ll see all the studies I linked.

[Odinson]

"However in several large studies from Taiwan a vegan diet was not associated with favourable cardio-metabolic risk factors compared to the control diets."

This quote was from the study YOU quoted.

One of the things you learn when you study for a DEGREE is to read the complete study. Not just snippets that suit your religion.

When you do a masters degree you learn to quote only review articles and editorials. Otherwise the professors will rip you apart.

A meta analysis is also worth it. Especially if you read the "However" part.

Oh, the irony.

 

“The lack of difference in risk factors between vegans and omnivores in studies from Taiwan may reflect differences in the diet of vegans and/or controls compared to other populations.[64] Vegans included in the studies from Taiwan may adhere less strictly to a vegan diet. In these studies [18,28,35,39] the definition of vegan was less restrictive and was defined as consumption of non-animal based food 3 times a day, 30 days a month. When a subgroup analysis was done in restrictive compared to less restrictive definition of vegan in Asia, there was no difference in the result. This suggests that other factors may explain difference between Asian and non-Asian studies. For example, the diet pattern for omnivores in Asia may include less animal product than for non-Asian countries, so the differences between omnivores and vegans may be less. Diets across Asia are diverse, but there were no studies from other Asian countries which met inclusion criteria. Based on these observations the subgroup analysis which excludes Asian studies may provide a more reliable estimate of effects of a strictly vegan diet compared to a omnivorous diet in non-Asian countries.”

 

On your second point, have a gander at what sits at the top of the hierarchy of evidence.

[FrankG]

When you do a masters degree you learn to quote only review articles and editorials. Otherwise the professors will rip you apart.

 

Why didn't you tell us earlier you had a masters?? We would have instantly stopped having our opinion and agreed with you.

[corriekuilder]

Please refer to my post stating that a vegan diet is carbon neutral.

 

Of course it has a footprint. Everything does! However, study after study has found that the easiest/most significant way for Joe Soap to reduce their carbon footprint is to switch to a plant-based diet.

 

If you go through this and the environmental thread you’ll see all the studies I linked.

It cannot be neutral, you eat, and you fart, simple as that.

[Goodbadugly]

Why didn't you tell us earlier you had a masters?? We would have instantly stopped having our opinion and agreed with you.

This one is for you.

Please feel free to ask if you need an explanation.