The Veganism Thread

[Goodbadugly]

You have to ask if their goal is to convert people and make a real change or is to just to make  statement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/peta-sparks-outrage-by-barbecuing-fake-dog-to-promote-veganism-11616185

A statement in bad taste.

More harmful to the 'cause' than Gillette keelhauling male clients. 

Makes me think of a statement by an old guy when his opinion was asked on "fighting for peace".

His answer: Fighting for peace is like f@cking for virginity. 

 

A few things I do not get about vegans is the fakeness.

Food that looks like meat. WTF? 

Food that tastes like meat. Ditto.

Less environmental impact. And then you fly your fake food around the globe with A1 jetfuel. Ditto.

[Eldron]

Going to try this sometime when I can get around to an Albert Heijn: 

 

Naturli 'Mince'

 

 

@Eldron this is from a Danish brand - you should find some and try it. 

 

Most of the local supermarkets have a Naturli section in the Vegan section - they make a fine mince.

 

We mostly use Naturli or Khorm. Naturli is the best vegan mince I have found so far - it has great texture - that same "flexi squish" that beef mince has. Most people would not know they were eating vegan mince if they ate a Naturli mince curry.

[Kranswurm]

Most of the local supermarkets have a Naturli section in the Vegan section - they make a fine mince.

 

We mostly use Naturli or Khorm. Naturli is the best vegan mince I have found so far - it has great texture - that same "flexi squish" that beef mince has. Most people would not know they were eating vegan mince if they ate a Naturli mince curry.

[Eldron]

You have to ask if their goal is to convert people and make a real change or is to just to make  statement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/peta-sparks-outrage-by-barbecuing-fake-dog-to-promote-veganism-11616185

 

The fact that it outraged at all is proof of people's hypocrisy when eating meat.

 

I still maintain that if people had to watch their meat being made they would eat a lot less meat. Or god forbid they had to chop up their own animals.

 

One of the "luxuries" of modern life is that we mostly only see the benefits of labour and not the actual labour. The polluting, killing, nature destroying industry happens far from us while we happily live if clean houses, buy well presented meat and walk around on paths around landscaped dams and parks.

 

One of the reasons that planet is being destroyed is that people are largely unaware of the problem - they read about it on social media instead of seeing it with their own eyes so it doesn't have the same impact (and reaction).

[Eldron]

 

Eh?

[Kranswurm]

Eh?

Sorry....

Not a chance will you mistake it for meat.

Ate a lot of that stuff while my son and his fiance stayed with me for two years

Def taste the difference no matter how you disguise it.

I don't dislike it and happily ate it

[Odinson]

You have to ask if their goal is to convert people and make a real change or is to just to make  statement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/peta-sparks-outrage-by-barbecuing-fake-dog-to-promote-veganism-11616185

 

Although I'm no fan of PETA, I think it's important to note that the 'stunt' was done to have people consider their own speciesism.

 

Most people value cats and dogs as companion animals and are therefore appalled at the thought of having a cat or dog for dinner, but don't blink an eye at the piece of dead cow or pig on their plate. Having people confront their arbitrary and programmed notions of what animals deserve the right to life and dignity is an important step towards veganism. It's about that making that connection. 

[Patchelicious]

The fact that it outraged at all is proof of people's hypocrisy when eating meat.

 

I still maintain that if people had to watch their meat being made they would eat a lot less meat. Or god forbid they had to chop up their own animals.

 

One of the "luxuries" of modern life is that we mostly only see the benefits of labour and not the actual labour. The polluting, killing, nature destroying industry happens far from us while we happily live if clean houses, buy well presented meat and walk around on paths around landscaped dams and parks.

 

One of the reasons that planet is being destroyed is that people are largely unaware of the problem - they read about it on social media instead of seeing it with their own eyes so it doesn't have the same impact (and reaction).

Thats not exactly a revelation, we know that people put different animals on different places on the food/pet/spectrum. 

 

This wasn't the point of my post, I posted to ask if this PETA action is seen as a real attempt to change minds, or simply to get a reaction. 

 

The reality is that these types of tactics are more likely to create resentment towards ALL vegan and veganism (unfairly so) than it is going to actually convince people that their levels of morals are incorrect.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Patchelicious

[Odinson]

Sorry....

Not a chance will you mistake it for meat.

Ate a lot of that stuff while my son and his fiance stayed with me for two years

Def taste the difference no matter how you disguise it.

I don't dislike it and happily ate it

 

Some you can easily taste, but that doesn't make it 'inferior' in my mind. 

 

That being said, when I was in the US, my wife and I ate at a fast food joint called Plant Power Fast Food. My mind was blown. I could not believe how well they were able to replicate cow meat patties, fried chicken and even a fried egg. Seriously next level stuff. 

[Eldron]

Thats not exactly a revelation, we know that people put different animals on different places on the food/pet/spectrum. 

 

This wasn't the point of my post, I posted to ask if this PETA action is seen as a real attempt to change minds, or simply to get a reaction. 

 

The reality is that these types of tactics are more likely to create resentment towards ALL vegan and veganism (unfairly so) than it is going to actually convince people that their levels of morals are incorrect.

 

My opinion is that it is not a binary situation. To answer your question I'd say it it both.

 

For sure PETA did it to get attention...but I think "shocking" stunts like this will actually make people sit up and take notice.

 

The resentment against ALL things vegans - I don't think so. The South African echo chamber is quite small and quite rigid.Other parts of the world are far more amenable to veganism.

[Kranswurm]

Some you can easily taste, but that doesn't make it 'inferior' in my mind. 

 

That being said, when I was in the US, my wife and I ate at a fast food joint called Plant Power Fast Food. My mind was blown. I could not believe how well they were able to replicate cow meat patties, fried chicken and even a fried egg. Seriously next level stuff. 

I did not say its inferior

[Mudsimus]

 

Or god forbid they had to chop up their own animals.

 

 

Really? Isn't that what humans have been doing for thousands and thousands of years? I grew up on a farm, I slaughtered and ate many sheep, I cleaned and ate fish all my life. I really don't get it why vegans think this should change mindsets.

[Eldron]

Sorry....

Not a chance will you mistake it for meat.

Ate a lot of that stuff while my son and his fiance stayed with me for two years

Def taste the difference no matter how you disguise it.

I don't dislike it and happily ate it

 

In the same way you get good and bad meat mince you get good and bad vegan mince.

 

Khorm I find a nit powdery and soft - Naturli is far better for curries etc. You can't really eat one kind of vegan mince and make informed opinions on all vegan mince.

 

If your son's curry was made with Naturli then ignore my post :-)

[Odinson]

I did not say its inferior

 

No, no. You didn't. Not putting your words in your mouth. 

 

Just stuck that in there as you get some folks who will have the retort of 'it's not the real thing, so I'm not interested. 

[Chris_]

You have to ask if their goal is to convert people and make a real change or is to just to make  statement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/peta-sparks-outrage-by-barbecuing-fake-dog-to-promote-veganism-11616185

 

I don't know who selected the quotes to put in the article and which side of the fence they sit.

 

But ' That supposed protest in Sydney is more inhumane than any slaughtering of animals' and 'How about stop pushing your agenda on everyone else' shows me that people are pleading catastrophic ignorance to the exact issues being raised. 

 

The problem with most people is that they refuse point blank to acknowledge certain things because it does not suit their personal agenda, and would rather stand there shouting with their hands covering their eyes and ears to block everything out.

[Patchelicious]

Although I'm no fan of PETA, I think it's important to note that the 'stunt' was done to have people consider their own speciesism.

 

Most people value cats and dogs as companion animals and are therefore appalled at the thought of having a cat or dog for dinner, but don't blink an eye at the piece of dead cow or pig on their plate. Having people confront their arbitrary and programmed notions of what animals deserve the right to life and dignity is an important step towards veganism. It's about that making that connection. 

Anecdotal.... but this had a negative impact on my desire to become a vegan. 

 

People who have not yet made the mental change that you have, still have an uphill battle to do so, for many giving up the way they have lived and were brought up might not be as easy as it was for you. 

 

If you want to change the worlds eating habits, I suggest that you make it as easy as possible for them, and not paint the people who you are trying to convert as assholes while coming off as sanctimonious. People usually respond better if you dont do that.

 

These tactics will not convert the hard meat eaters, but it will chase away those who could be more inclined to switch. You seem to grasp this concept very well when we talk about political or religious spectrums, but not so much with this.

Note: this isn't a comparison of veganism to politics or religion, its about people on spectrums understanding and influencing each other.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Patchelicious