Tracking Stolen Bikes

[Dieter ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

This poll was not aimed at how recovery would work but rather in whether tracking and possible recovery is of interest and what people's thoughts are regarding to topic. 

 

This post was NOT called "How to recover you stolen bike" so why fixate on it. Before being so vehemently opposed to something it maybe take the time out to ponder why it was initiated other than assuming everything is about making a fast buck, that is ignorance. 

 

I do however appreciate the feedback and questions and they are substantiated and merit a separate discussion based on the results of this poll. 

So from the first post:

 

"I am working on a potential solution to track stolen/lost bikes via GPS and have put together a poll to determine the feasibility of such a device and/or service."

 

Let's look at the first question:

 

"Do you see a benefit to tracking & retrieving a stolen bike" - uh? How can it not be a benefit. Now with everyone obviously saying yes to this, can he YOU deduce that yes it is feasible? No doubt. We are fixating on the retrieval because that is the biggest issue we have. We have had tracking devices for years in cars. The issues are not can we fit a tracker to a bike, the issue is how can we stop the tracker being removed and how can we retrieve a tracked bike. This is where the service or product can be successful.

 

 

 

[LOCO4360]

So from the first post:

 

"I am working on a potential solution to track stolen/lost bikes via GPS and have put together a poll to determine the feasibility of such a device and/or service."

 

Let's look at the first question:

 

"Do you see a benefit to tracking & retrieving a stolen bike" - uh? How can it not be a benefit. Now with everyone obviously saying yes to this, can he YOU deduce that yes it is feasible? No doubt. We are fixating on the retrieval because that is the biggest issue we have. We have had tracking devices for years in cars. The issues are not can we fit a tracker to a bike, the issue is how can we stop the tracker being removed and how can we retrieve a tracked bike. This is where the service or product can be successful.

 

 

 

This was a more helpful answer to the question, the other issues, removal, retrieval, etc. are things that need to be addressed. 

 

The removal part, or non being able to remove it, is more easily addressed as part of a product design. 

 

I wasn't trying to start a forum war, just a calm and rational discussion 

[Maaknplan]

My personal view is that a system should be developed that is not for the masses but rather bait bikes.

Im sure we all would like to know what the hell happens to high end bikes that get stolen.

The majority just seem to disappear forever.

My feeling is that there are organised crime syndicates who get the bikes over the border in bulk.

It may be possible to get a tracking company and insurance company involved who will benefit from any publicity if there are some successes

[Plentipotential]

This poll was not aimed at how recovery would work but rather in whether tracking and possible recovery is of interest and what people's thoughts are regarding to topic. 

 

This post was NOT called "How to recover you stolen bike" so why fixate on it. Before being so vehemently opposed to something it maybe take the time out to ponder why it was initiated other than assuming everything is about making a fast buck, that is ignorance. 

 

I do however appreciate the feedback and questions and they are substantiated and merit a separate discussion based on the results of this poll. 

 

The two portions of your post which I have highlighted are intrinsically linked. Let me explain. No one would pay for a tracking system unless there was a very real possibility of recovery.

 

Before you get yourself all wound up I think that the feedback regarding the inability of current tracking devices to enable recovery are useful info for you. I have no doubt that it would be easy enough to design a device which could be fitted to a bike that would be difficult to remove. The thief would need to cut the frame open which would mean that he could only sell the parts and not the frame. I suspect that this is probably what happens to a lot of stolen bikes anyway. You need to come up with a possible percentage of recoveries before anyone will spend money.

 

I own a bike which cost me R30 K, now I would gratefully accept R7 K to sell it, it will never be insured nor would I fit a tracking device to it. However, if I bought a new R60 K bike I would probably insure it against theft, any device that could help recover the bike would be looked at. But you have already been told that if it's insured then it's the insurance co's problem. That would be my view because my bike is loosing value every day, take my money and get a new bike, the stolen bike is no longer my problem. So my advice to you would be to approach the insurance industry because they have no doubt got people who look into these matters and have a better understanding of what is needed in tracking and recovery. They may very well have a policy of "stuff that let's pay the claim and be done with it", well that's my opinion deduced after looking into the costs of bicycle insurance.

 

Not much point in me being able to sit at home and see on my phone that my bike is in the local township now is there? I want my bike back or I want some money paid out to me.

[Shebeen]

so what are the issues with bike trackers currently?

Cost/ Weight/Battery life

 

None of these are an issue with car trackers, yet we don't see every car being fitted with one or car theft being solved.

 

Point being made, the solution to bike trackers is not just improving the technology.

 

 

This was a more helpful answer to the question, the other issues, removal, retrieval, etc. are things that need to be addressed. 

 

The removal part, or non being able to remove it, is more easily addressed as part of a product design. 

 

I wasn't trying to start a forum war, just a calm and rational discussion 

 

Another aspect to look at.

first bike manufacturer to add integrated system of bike tracking in the production process of the frame gets a high five.

[rorydewet]

This poll was not aimed at how recovery would work but rather in whether tracking and possible recovery is of interest and what people's thoughts are regarding to topic. 

 

This post was NOT called "How to recover you stolen bike" so why fixate on it. Before being so vehemently opposed to something it maybe take the time out to ponder why it was initiated other than assuming everything is about making a fast buck, that is ignorance. 

 

I do however appreciate the feedback and questions and they are substantiated and merit a separate discussion based on the results of this poll. 

 

wow this guys asks for feedback

 

gets it but not what he wants to hear

 

so he blasts the guys who have given him their views

 

all they are saying its fine to track but how do you recover

 

if you dont like that ignore it and do your own thing

 

good luck with that

[Dirkitech]

I don't disagree with some of what you have said here but, that's why the poll asks certain questions. I guess most people are happy that once a bike is stolen it's gone and it's ok. I bet that all the people that have had their bikes stolen don't feel the same. Being in the electronic industry, specifically GPS/Cellular and IoT, gives me some insight as to how and what could work. The problem with people is that everyone has loads of ideas and knows best until it happens to them. This poll was intended to get some broad information to use is determining what people would want and how it could best work. 

 

Imagine someone shot or stabbed you while robbing you of your bike and you could not only have a way to retrieve your bike but also to potentially find and apprehend these criminals.  

Slightly nit picking, but in good faith Loco. I'm also finding some statements I experience as contradictory, so really just asking for clarification and development.

In the bolded part above, is the "problem people" not also the very same people you're addressing in this forum? You're looking for broad information, as long as it comes from someone who has had their bike stolen?

I don't believe that is your intent, but if it was, only reason why I haven't had mine stolen yet (in my perception) is because I've always been prepared and am ready to draw my weapon everytime I spot a high risk situation or area. In spite of this, I too would like a gps tracking device in my bike (within reason) and not just to check whether the domestic worker knocked it over, again.

 

This poll was not aimed at how recovery would work but rather in whether tracking and possible recovery is of interest and what people's thoughts are regarding to topic. 

 

This post was NOT called "How to recover you stolen bike" so why fixate on it. Before being so vehemently opposed to something it maybe take the time out to ponder why it was initiated other than assuming everything is about making a fast buck, that is ignorance. 

 

I do however appreciate the feedback and questions and they are substantiated and merit a separate discussion based on the results of this poll. 

This is entirely fair. It sounds like you had your question & poll in mind in absolution and want discussions revolving around the actual product and experience, not application. Unfortunately, unless it wasn't anything more than a hypothetical discussion, in reality the practical connotations like recovery, salvageability, etc. play a damning role.

As you mentioned in another post, you've come across or designed or something, a tracking device in the region of R2100. While it would be very convenient and add peace of mind if I had such device in my bike, the rate is worth 14 months of insurance. This is assuming the fitment is 3rd party/DIY and that no extra installation or monthly fees get charged. For such a product to be worthwhile in my opinion, it will need to be significantly less than insurance - after all, the whole idea behind having insurance is that I've taken the first step into admitting that I may not always have this bike, whether it is sentimental or not.

As an example - there was recently a burnt up road bike (a used-to-be very naais Cervelo, so not cheap!) discovered in a veld somewhere around sandton/rosebank/bordeaux. Would the gps tracking device have survived that? If it did, what would prevent the owner from feeling like they've wasted all the money on the tracking device, only to find their bike destroyed anyways? Insurance won't reimburse that money and there will be nothing to show for the expense. Kindly note that I'm trying to avoid discussing the very relevant and realistic nature of irrecoverable items in south africa.

In summary:

Would I want a gps tracker? YES

Would I spend anything more than a cellphone cover or the cost of a new chain? NO. Even if it ran on a single cr2032 for 6 months on end, the maintenance and cost involved replacing a battery to a product deep in the frame of fork steerer or wherever isn't worth it.

If I had the tracker and was able to track the bike down and it was in a squatter camp or "danger zone", would I physically go looking for it, thus making use of the device tracking feature? NO

Regarding the previous question, would insurance or SAPS care? NO, I've tracked a stolen cellphone to a street in Fourways, SAPS refused to write it down in the police case nor follow up on the lead.

 

My opinion is but one, but I tried to be thorough and this may even lead new stems of ideas. I hope you find an answer for your question, whether good or unpleasant.

 

 

My personal view is that a system should be developed that is not for the masses but rather bait bikes.

Im sure we all would like to know what the hell happens to high end bikes that get stolen.

The majority just seem to disappear forever.

My feeling is that there are organised crime syndicates who get the bikes over the border in bulk.

It may be possible to get a tracking company and insurance company involved who will benefit from any publicity if there are some successes

I think, depending on the final designs put forward, if the product is heavy or interferes with performance in any way, the high end bikes are the first ones that will ignore this technology/product.

 

I disagree about it not being for the masses - not just high end pinarellos, s-works or ellsworths get stolen, titan's, merida's, giant's entry level also get stolen. If the technology was designed around bait bikes, then discussion on a public forum would be the first mistake.

I've personally toyed with the idea around several available products over a year ago, but my conclusion back then was also that costs outweigh the functionality and the true functionality, at least in ZA, is a reliable insurer.

[LOCO4360]

wow this guys asks for feedback

 

gets it but not what he wants to hear

 

so he blasts the guys who have given him their views

 

all they are saying its fine to track but how do you recover

 

if you dont like that ignore it and do your won thing

good luck with that

Firstly I put up a poll to be completed and looked forward to the feedback of the poll.. in my further messages I agreed in most part to what was being said. 

[LOCO4360]

Slightly nit picking, but in good faith Loco. I'm also finding some statements I experience as contradictory, so really just asking for clarification and development.

In the bolded part above, is the "problem people" not also the very same people you're addressing in this forum? You're looking for broad information, as long as it comes from someone who has had their bike stolen?

I don't believe that is your intent, but if it was, only reason why I haven't had mine stolen yet (in my perception) is because I've always been prepared and am ready to draw my weapon everytime I spot a high risk situation or area. In spite of this, I too would like a gps tracking device in my bike (within reason) and not just to check whether the domestic worker knocked it over, again.

 

This is entirely fair. It sounds like you had your question & poll in mind in absolution and want discussions revolving around the actual product and experience, not application. Unfortunately, unless it wasn't anything more than a hypothetical discussion, in reality the practical connotations like recovery, salvageability, etc. play a damning role.

As you mentioned in another post, you've come across or designed or something, a tracking device in the region of R2100. While it would be very convenient and add peace of mind if I had such device in my bike, the rate is worth 14 months of insurance. This is assuming the fitment is 3rd party/DIY and that no extra installation or monthly fees get charged. For such a product to be worthwhile in my opinion, it will need to be significantly less than insurance - after all, the whole idea behind having insurance is that I've taken the first step into admitting that I may not always have this bike, whether it is sentimental or not.

As an example - there was recently a burnt up road bike (a used-to-be very naais Cervelo, so not cheap!) discovered in a veld somewhere around sandton/rosebank/bordeaux. Would the gps tracking device have survived that? If it did, what would prevent the owner from feeling like they've wasted all the money on the tracking device, only to find their bike destroyed anyways? Insurance won't reimburse that money and there will be nothing to show for the expense. Kindly note that I'm trying to avoid discussing the very relevant and realistic nature of irrecoverable items in south africa.

In summary:

Would I want a gps tracker? YES

Would I spend anything more than a cellphone cover or the cost of a new chain? NO. Even if it ran on a single cr2032 for 6 months on end, the maintenance and cost involved replacing a battery to a product deep in the frame of fork steerer or wherever isn't worth it.

If I had the tracker and was able to track the bike down and it was in a squatter camp or "danger zone", would I physically go looking for it, thus making use of the device tracking feature? NO

Regarding the previous question, would insurance or SAPS care? NO, I've tracked a stolen cellphone to a street in Fourways, SAPS refused to write it down in the police case nor follow up on the lead.

 

My opinion is but one, but I tried to be thorough and this may even lead new stems of ideas. I hope you find an answer for your question, whether good or unpleasant.

 

 

I think, depending on the final designs put forward, if the product is heavy or interferes with performance in any way, the high end bikes are the first ones that will ignore this technology/product.

 

I disagree about it not being for the masses - not just high end pinarellos, s-works or ellsworths get stolen, titan's, merida's, giant's entry level also get stolen. If the technology was designed around bait bikes, then discussion on a public forum would be the first mistake.

I've personally toyed with the idea around several available products over a year ago, but my conclusion back then was also that costs outweigh the functionality and the true functionality, at least in ZA, is a reliable insurer.

Thanks for your feedback and I must agree that I would not personally want to go into any danger zone myself and from what we've discussed here I think that the general public (you and I) would not benefit from purchasing a device like this as it would I guess add minimal value based on recovery experiences posted here and so that kind of answers some of underlying questions.  

 

Thanks all...