The Abortion Issue

[Stretch]

No, I meant I have read the Bible many times over, and Jemimah is not a book in the Bible, nor does your quoted verse exist anywhere else in it.

 

 

Either God is the author of the Bible, or He is not. There is no third option. If He is the author, then He makes no mistakes, as God is perfect. He does not “forget” things. He does not “accidentally” leave books out. So thus the Bible is infallible and verifiable true if this supposition holds weight.

 

If God is not the author of the Bible, then it stands to reason that man is. Who would be authorized to compile the Canon of Scripture? The early church leaders would. So, thus they would be the final authority of what qualifies as Scripture. If there is now a claim that ‘lost books’ of the Bible exist, then by what standard are those books now qualified as lost? If the Bible is a collection of beliefs of the early church fathers, and some books were excluded, it stands to reason that those excluded books were rejected due to inconsistencies with the beliefs of the early church. Remember that for the sake of this argument, the Bible was a human construct, not God’s, so the original authors had the full right to decide what is included, and what not.

 

It is ironic that many of the so-called ‘lost books’ community point out that these books were discovered by them and were “suppressed” by the early church fathers. It is akin to accusing them of throwing these ‘lost books’ out, trashing them. The accusation stands as charged. The early church did throw them out. Now, critics such as yourself seems to think this bolsters your argument. In fact, it does the opposite, because it proves that these books were not included for the simple reason that they were not accepted by the early church fathers as representative of their beliefs, so therefor the ‘lost books’ cannot be part of the their Bible.

 

So, despite your view of the Bible – God Authored, or Man authored, there is no sense in which it makes any sense to refer to ‘lost books’ of the Bible. It is simply not rationally possible that there can be any ‘lost books’ of the Bible. That argument does not stand. There are other books of antiquity, but they are not, nor were never intended to be part of the Bible.

Oh my God you are delusional in some of what you say. Books weren't "lost" they were excluded for reasons decided by a collective of man. Why are some books included in some forms of the Bible and excluded in others. Thecla for example is acknowledged in the Catholic Church because it promotes chastity. Then there is the gospel of Christ as a child which is also omitted because a group of men decided it was irrelevant. Not God...a group of men

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

You're telling me in a roundabout way to shut up?

Did I say that? No, I did not.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oh my God you are delusional in some of what you say. Books weren't "lost" they were excluded for reasons decided by a collective of man. Why are some books included in some forms of the Bible and excluded in others. Thecla for example is acknowledged in the Catholic Church because it promotes chastity. Then there is the gospel of Christ as a child which is also omitted because a group of men decided it was irrelevant. Not God...a group of men

Mostly rulers and church leaders throughout the ages, cherry picking verses and books to suit their narratives. 

[Robbie Stewart]

Did I say that? No, I did not.

 

My bad. I am starting to read too much into what is being said. My apologies.

 

 

[Odinson]

You will be conscious,aware and knowledgeable, yes.

 

You will die in as much as your earthly body ceased to exist. Death as we know it, ergo, no heartbeat.

 

Your spirit lives on, as it is from God to begin with. Your spirit is made in His Image, eternal, conscious, self-aware, and able to reason and think. This returns to Him, and He will decide that spirit's fate.

 

Have you ever sat in an empty room, staring at the walls for hours on end? Do you think our feeble human minds will not collapse under the weight of eternity? 

 

Or will we be sanitized versions of ourselves, where your mind won't wander to thoughts such as tittyfcking Emily Ratajkowski? 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

We are already in hell and will all go to a place where we will sing kumbaya together [emoji106]

In my opinion, Heaven or hell is your depiction of where you are in life, based on your experiences, treatment of others, outlook and general disposition. This is where I agree with what Jordan Peterson believes the human writers of the bible were trying to put across. 

 

Life is what you make of it. You can be in "hell on earth" or "heaven on earth" - either through accident or decision. 

 

I'd argue that a homeless heroin addict would be in a perfect depiction of hell. 

[Robbie Stewart]

Oh my God you are delusional in some of what you say. Books weren't "lost" they were excluded for reasons decided by a collective of man. Why are some books included in some forms of the Bible and excluded in others. Thecla for example is acknowledged in the Catholic Church because it promotes chastity. Then there is the gospel of Christ as a child which is also omitted because a group of men decided it was irrelevant. Not God...a group of men

 

Again, you are not answering the question.

 

If God is the Author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

If man is the author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

There is no third option?

 

WHAT SAY YOU?

[Karooryder]

Ah... Friday.

 

Where we'll try have logical debates with people who have long abandoned that simplest of notions - basing their lives on the most muddled, confused and 're-interpreted' story book in history.

 

Please do not expect a rational or critical thought process dear friends - there will be no changing of minds - this is all merely a test of their blind faith. And fear not, they shall pass with flying colors, as that is God's will. 

 

Knock yourselves out 

 

You guys are really on a hiding to nothing. You to a trying to engage in a rational argument with a fundamentalist believer in an incomplete, at best, metaphorical, book about a character that with almost mathematical certainty, doesn't exist. You are better off arguing the merits of abortion based on the sound scientific understanding of Harry Potter.

 

On the topic at hand; I have a willy and all the rest and therefore will not, for a single moment attempt an opinion as I believe that I have absolutely no contextual authority to do so.

 

On the above; these kinds of responses are not helpful and borders on that kind of arrogant offensive that is really not sexy.  

 

@ Andrew Steer: ironically your opinion on this book (“most muddled, confused and 're-interpreted' story book in history”) is exactly that…a muddling, confusing and re-interpreting of things in this book that you probably don’t understand. Add to that an odour of cynicism and bitterness of Biblical proportions and you might not be any wiser than the “blind believer” Robbie.  

 

@ Thor: you use the words “with almost mathematical certainty, doesn't exist””. I.e…there is a chance - however small - that He actually do exist. Be a gentleman and allow Robbie to believe that.

 

Now let’s crack open a beer.

[Edition 507]

An unviable fetus was never part of God's original design. That was a result of man's rebellion against God's perfect will.

So a viable fetus is the creation of God and and unviable fetus is the creation of man. So at conception time i.e. when the ovum gets fertilised, God can detect whether this life that has been created is going to be viable or unviable, and depending on what he detects, He will either give this life a spirit or not give this life a spirit. 

 

Hypothetically, if a woman gets pregnant but terminates the pregnancy after six weeks, but unbeknownst to her, God had already determined that the fetus was unviable and this woman would have aborted naturally at 12 weeks, this would mean that there was no God given life in the fetus and the abortion was merely the flushing of a bunch of cells down the toilet and nothing more. This could be extrapolated to every abortion which would mean that there is no longer any moral or religious dilemma around abortion.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Again, you are not answering the question.

 

If God is the Author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

If man is the author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

There is no third option?

 

WHAT SAY YOU?

Man was the author, definitively. Even the "first hand" accounts were recollections told 3rd hand, decades after teh events were supposed to have taken place, related by people who were persecuted, drugged, tortured and imprisoned because they were radicals at the time. I suggest you research the writing of the bible and its history. 

[Robbie Stewart]

In my opinion, Heaven or hell is your depiction of where you are in life, based on your experiences, treatment of others, outlook and general disposition. This is where I agree with what Jordan Peterson believes the human writers of the bible were trying to put across. 

 

Life is what you make of it. You can be in "hell on earth" or "heaven on earth" - either through accident or decision. 

 

I'd argue that a homeless heroin addict would be in a perfect depiction of hell. 

 

I have a question for you on this topic. 

 

Historians and archaeologists are in agreement that the Historical Jesus was a real man, who lived in the time and space as portrayed by the Bible. Forget for a minute what I, personally, believe about Him.

 

Lets just talk about the reason for being willing to die on a cross. Why? What possible reason did He have to hand Himself over to be killed on a cross, even after being declared innocent by Pontius Pilate? What did He stand to gain by being crucified?

[Escapee..]

Have you ever sat in an empty room, staring at the walls for hours on end? Do you think our feeble human minds will not collapse under the weight of eternity? 

 

Or will we be sanitized versions of ourselves, where your mind won't wander to thoughts such as tittyfcking Emily Ratajkowski? 

 

I will not let my mind wander to this!

[Robbie Stewart]

I suggest you research the writing of the bible and its history. 

 

I have, intensively, over a period of 5 years.

[Stretch]

Again, you are not answering the question.

 

If God is the Author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

If man is the author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

There is no third option?

 

WHAT SAY YOU?

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what you're even saying.

 

Each book in the Bible is written by a man based upon accounts of life in that period. Unless I missed that part where your god sat down and wrote some stuff and magicked it onto some stone tablet.

 

These parchments and stones and bits of clay were collected by men, translated (potential interpretation issues there), collatted over time, omitting some... And then you have your Bible.

[Gen]

Again, you are not answering the question.

 

If God is the Author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

If man is the author, the Canon of the Bible is closed, and complete.

 

There is no third option?

 

WHAT SAY YOU?

Which one, the protestant version or the catholic version ..Or the one from 1611 or 1648 after they removed some books. which one are you referring too.. which one is the complete and closed one?

 

Man is the author of all.

[Shebeen]

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/abortion-texas-lawmaker-trnd/index.html?no-st=1558081289