XT m8100/SLX m7100

[MORNE]

??

Why would it be only compatible with XT 12 speed? the chain is a little narrower than the 11speed chain but its not narrower than the SRAM Eagle 12s chains. Where is the compatibility issue?

 

apparently better/seamless shifting even when under load. there is a GMBN video somewhere about it too. shimano chains have been directional since forever though...so i think they are just saying that for "ultimate performance" paired with the xt micro spline cassette...don't mix and match. according to some of the reviews...it took them forever to perfect the tech..part of the reason they were so late to the party with 1x12.

Edited July 31, 2019 by morneS555

[EVOBIKES ONLINE STORE]

apparently better/seamless shifting even when under load. there is a GMBN video somewhere about it too. shimano chains have been directional since forever though...so i think they are just saying that for "ultimate performance" paired with the xt micro spline cassette...don't mix and match. according to some of the reviews...it took them forever to perfect the tech..part of the reason they were so late to the party with 1x12.

100% correct...

 

We had a XT 12 speed groupset fitted with a Sunrace cassette and XT 12 speed chain. Shifting - especially under load was an issue. Changed it to NON directional 12 speed chains (SRAM/KMC) - much improved shifting.

 

Fitted the XT 12 spd cassette onto a newly build XT wheel with microspline and replaced rear wheel with this and XT 12 speed chain.

 

Shifts are absolutely faultless...

 

So yes - IN THEORY the 12 speed Shimano chains can be used with other cassettes/chainrings but I would not advise it.

 

This from practical experience.

[DieselnDust]

thanks for that. Looks interesting. If those chains last anywhere close to the durability of my XX1 chains then maybe Shimano is worth a try. But SRAM is pretty faultless as it is

[MORNE]

thanks for that. Looks interesting. If those chains last anywhere close to the durability of my XX1 chains then maybe Shimano is worth a try. But SRAM is pretty faultless as it is

except for their shifters imo .

once you try an XTR level shifter with multi shift/instant release nothing compares. the crispness in action/shifting is unparalleled imo.

SRAM shifts work like this as you know: you push the lever...and only once you release it again...it moves the derailleur into the chosen position.

Shimano: once you press it...it instantly releases the derailleur into the next step so it is not waiting for you to let go with your thumb before doing its job...technically cutting out half the process. it is a noticeable difference.

Also.... multiple upshifts like this at a time as well multiple downshifts with ONE push/pull action ...even on the same lever (2 way release). you push/pull normally for 1 shift or push/pull further in the lever's throw for a multishift.

 

Why I maintain that once you have ridden with XTR, nothing will ever feel the same again...everything else will just feel clunky at best. Well,  to me at least.

 

EDIT: AXS is the only level where you get these features apparently. I guess Shimano has/had patents when it comes to mechanical shifters...electronics then opens the door on software to do things better.

Edited August 1, 2019 by morneS555

[Traveler]

Why I maintain that once you have ridden with XTR, nothing will ever feel the same again...everything else will just feel clunky at best. Well,  to me at least.

 

I will have to concur..... (reluctantly) 

 

Have Eagle on one bike and it works like a Swiss clock, even after a couple of times where I completely ran out of talent like Vodacom Data it still works impeccably. And shifting is near silent.  

 

Recently added a new bike to the stable and fitted it with XTR M9001. It was a revelation, Eagle cannot compare in the immediate shift and the smooth shift at that.

 

Having grown up with Donkey Kong and Atari, I have pretty fast fingers, so multiple up of down shifts are no real issue and was not the main reason. However, the overall performance of XTR is really next level, now I can actually feel the difference when riding the two groupsets back to back. 

 

The only question I have is if XTR will survive the next time I run out of talent? 

[DieselnDust]

except for their shifters imo .

once you try an XTR level shifter with multi shift/instant release nothing compares. the crispness in action/shifting is unparalleled imo.

SRAM shifts work like this as you know: you push the lever...and only once you release it again...it moves the derailleur into the chosen position.

Shimano: once you press it...it instantly releases the derailleur into the next step so it is not waiting for you to let go with your thumb before doing its job...technically cutting out half the process. it is a noticeable difference.

Also.... multiple upshifts like this at a time as well multiple downshifts with ONE push/pull action ...even on the same lever (2 way release). you push/pull normally for 1 shift or push/pull further in the lever's throw for a multishift.

 

Why I maintain that once you have ridden with XTR, nothing will ever feel the same again...everything else will just feel clunky at best. Well,  to me at least.

 

EDIT: AXS is the only level where you get these features apparently. I guess Shimano has/had patents when it comes to mechanical shifters...electronics then opens the door on software to do things better.

I get away from the single upshift through using gripshift. Multiple shifts up or down and it's crisp fast and ergonomic

[PhilipV]

I get away from the single upshift through using gripshift. Multiple shifts up or down and it's crisp fast and ergonomic

It warms the cockles of my heart that there are still dinosaurs like you.

The kids of today just don't get it.

[nonky]

thanks for that. Looks interesting. If those chains last anywhere close to the durability of my XX1 chains then maybe Shimano is worth a try. But SRAM is pretty faultless as it is

 

XX1 may be faultless but GX, NX and SX (Eagle) most definitely are not...

 

The prices are in completely different leagues too, which is why considerations of 11-sp vs 12-sp;  or XT; or SLX are valid and interesting.

[nonky]

Forget all the fancy talk, go 12spd. There is no comparison in riding experience, the 12spd cassette changes in ratio is so small you do not feel it in your cadence. You do not necessarily have to go for the 1x12 you can also consider the 2x12 option offered by Shimano. 

 

1x10 and 1x11 is like cheap optics. It is the down payment on the eventual expense you will have on buying what you were suppose to from the beginning. 

 

That's not entirely applicable in this case, as OP resides in the Gauteng where a 50t granny gear isn't really necessary. 

 

As for ratio changes, 11-42 over 11 or 10-50 over 12 are much the same.

[Traveler]

That's not entirely applicable in this case, as OP resides in the Gauteng where a 50t granny gear isn't really necessary. 

 

As for ratio changes, 11-42 over 11 or 10-50 over 12 are much the same.

 

 

11spd and 12spd is as similar as Gauteng and Western Cape, since OP resides in Hartenbos. 

 

Fitting a bike today with 11spd is settling for 3-5 year old technology. It would be like explaining to a buyer why the previous Hilux Vigo is much the same as the current Hilux Revo. Or Discovery 3 is very much like Discovery 5.

 

Since OP is clearly a person that uses his equipment for a long time and is very good at maintenance, it makes sense to purchase current technology as it will be in service for a good number of years. 

[nonky]

11spd and 12spd is as similar as Gauteng and Western Cape, since OP resides in Hartenbos. 

 

Fitting a bike today with 11spd is settling for 3-5 year old technology. It would be like explaining to a buyer why the previous Hilux Vigo is much the same as the current Hilux Revo. Or Discovery 3 is very much like Discovery 5.

 

Since OP is clearly a person that uses his equipment for a long time and is very good at maintenance, it makes sense to purchase current technology as it will be in service for a good number of years. 

 

You're right, I forgot that OP moved to Hartenbos. 

 

As for longevity, expected GX Eagle lifespan is 5,000km's with regular chain replacements...if the derailleur lasts that long. 

 

I'm due to replace my GX drivetrain shortly - luckily the derailleur has already been replaced under warranty by SRAM. 

This means that my GX Eagle won't last for a full year of riding, which isn't great in my view.

 

Eagle is awesome but it definitely isn't the perfect or only solution.

[Grootgert]

Thanks for the interesting chat guys.

As for maintenance, I brush off my drivetrain and lube with Squirt after every ride. I also wipe my stanchions and lube with Brunox after every ride. That way, for me, they last a long time.

I have not finally made my mind up, but at the moment I am thinking XTR or XT shifter, Sram 1×12 10-50 cassette, XT derailleur and XT or SLX crankset with 32 or 34T and XT or SLX chain.

I have been told the SLX 7100 groupsets should become available very shortly.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Grootgert

[TheoG]

The xtr 9100 shifter is marketed as 11/12 speed compatible via a setscrew on the shifter itself.

 

I Wonder if it is then safe toassume the XT8100/SLX7100 versions can be set up the same (trickle down tech and all) by just getting the xtr9100 11/12spd shifter. They don't make it blatantly obvious anywhere but they do however state that the new SLX-XT-XTR components are cross compatible. Shimano is known for 'locked' out tech in lower end versions that can be manually unlocked using some minor modifications.

 

This  opens a whole new avenue of cheap upgrades to eventually end up at 12 speed but not having to buy new derailleurs and shifters...just the initial investment of the xtr shifter...which is the industry benchmark for shifting performance imo anyway. - should you obviously want to go this route and cash in on cheap 11 speed cassettes etc.

 

EDIT: guess it should work a treat

 

I know its a while since this was posted, but did you get more info on this?  I just bought a XT SL-M8100 shifter and although the external "switch" between 11 & 12 speed is not there, like on the XTR SL-M9100, the housing is shaped in exactly the same way.

 

This make me wonder, is it perhaps possible to open it up and make the change inside?  Anyone have knowledge or experience on this?

Edited November 18, 2020 by Theog

[MORNE]

I know its a while since this was posted, but did you get more info on this? I just bought a XT SL-M8100 shifter and although the external "switch" between 11 & 12 speed is not there, like on the XTR SL-M9100, the housing is shaped in exactly the same way.

 

This make me wonder, is it perhaps possible to open it up and make the change inside? Anyone have knowledge or experience on this?

Although im not suggesting you open it if you arent comfortable doing so....In the case of shimano it wouldn't be the first time upgrades were hidden from plain sight with just a facia piece or cover plate. They have done do in the past on shifters.

 

It should work though. The differences in pull ratios between 11 and 12 must be minuscule....id just set the low en screw so it stops it at the 11th click so the shifter can't go to 12. See if that works. Works a charm when setting up 10 speed Saint stuff to 7 speed.

Edited November 18, 2020 by morneS555

[Wimmas]

To the OP, first figure out what freehub body you have on. Going Shimano 12spd will mean you need a mirco spline freebody. If you do not have one, you will need to find out if your hub is compatable. If so, it is a new freebody, if not, it is a new hub and freebody with a wheel rebuild which can be costly.

 

Other than that it is simple math.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Wimmas

[TheoG]

Although im not suggesting you open it if you arent comfortable doing so....In the case of shimano it wouldn't be the first time upgrades were hidden from plain sight with just a facia piece or cover plate. They have done do in the past on shifters.

 

It should work though. The differences in pull ratios between 11 and 12 must be minuscule....id just set the low en screw so it stops it at the 11th click so the shifter can't go to 12. See if that works. Works a charm when setting up 10 speed Saint stuff to 7 speed.

 

Since its brand new and I want to use it on my 12sp upgrade, I'm not going to open it now, was just wondering since I suspect there is an good possibility that if opened the internals are going to look very much the same as the XTR.

 

I was just hoping someone else already did this.  When its used and/or broken one day, I will certainly investigate.