DieselnDust Posted November 6, 2019 Share So saying XTR is directly comparable to XO1 is not the same as saying that XX1 is better than XTR? Someone should let SRAM know that their flagship product is no better than their second tier product (or congratulate them on duping so many people into paying a premium price for something identical.) you're cleary very immature.Saying that X01 and XX1 is comparable with XTR is exactly that. It does not say one is crap. Edited November 6, 2019 by DieselnDust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosefat Posted November 6, 2019 Share you're cleary very immature.Saying that X01 and XX1 is comparable with XTR is exactly that. It does not say one is crap. I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:XX1XO1 = XTRGX = XT Whereas to my mind it should be:XX1 = XTRXO1 = XTGX = SLX But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better nonky and Pusher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 6, 2019 Share I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:XX1XO1 = XTRGX = XT Whereas to my mind it should be:XX1 = XTRXO1 = XTGX = SLX But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better Except that XX1 is on a level above X01 & XTR in terms of technology and materials used, and X01 is on the same level as XTR in terms of technology and materials used. You're wrong, DiD is right. It's that simple. EDIT: Shimano does have a LOT more options at a lot more price points below XT. That's the confusing bit for people who MUST always compare like for like. Just because the XTR & XX1 are the top of each company's product heirarchy, it doesn't mean that they are on the same level as each other. Just that they're each company's flagship product. Edited November 6, 2019 by Captain Fastbastard Mayhem DieselnDust and Milkman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickjay007 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Will this shed some light? Long Wheel Base and nonky 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosefat Posted November 6, 2019 Share Except that XX1 is on a level above X01 & XTR in terms of technology and materials used, and X01 is on the same level as XTR in terms of technology and materials used. You're wrong, DiD is right. It's that simple. EDIT: Shimano does have a LOT more options at a lot more price points below XT. That's the confusing bit for people who MUST always compare like for like. Just because the XTR & XX1 are the top of each company's product heirarchy, it doesn't mean that they are on the same level as each other. Just that they're each company's flagship product. Fine, I will admit defeat nonky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 6, 2019 Share Fine, I will admit defeatbut you haven't been "defeated". It's just something you were wrong about, it's not a war of opinions. sirmoun10goat and DieselnDust 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted November 6, 2019 Share I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:XX1XO1 = XTRGX = XT Whereas to my mind it should be:XX1 = XTRXO1 = XTGX = SLX But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better Your mind is wrong its that simple. As I've said it once and again and again and now so has the Cap,....SRAM does not tier their products according to Shimano tiering. They tier their products according the focus or discipline for the target market.XX1 = XCO Elite level productX01 = XCO/XCM/Enduro Racing productGX = Weekend Warrior/ MTB enthusiast level of product. SRAM does not compare itself to Shimano. The design and marketing of the product is focused on usergroups and what those users want. If SRAM tiered their products like Shimano they would not have ditched the front derailleur. Instead they would have designed their product to be better than Shimano at what Shimano is good at. SRAM has a totally different design philosophy. the SRAM rear deraillleurs since ESP has never pivoted at the mounting knuckle. they have always relied on an offset guide pulley and clutch of sorts to control the jockey pulley cage. they have always used a different cable pull ratio for their MTB derailleurs compared to Shimano. nonky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted November 6, 2019 Share Will this shed some light? that chart is not endorsed by SRAM. This isn't my opinion but from the SRAM Australia Marketing Manager when I asked him the question around tiering. IIRC it was from a magazine article of drivetrains? nonky and slickjay007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosefat Posted November 6, 2019 Share but you haven't been "defeated". It's just something you were wrong about, it's not a war of opinions. Has the debate not gone on long enough that we now have to bring in semantics? Is "Fine, I will admit that I was wrong" more palatable to you? If so, fine, I will admit that I was wrong. nonky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickjay007 Posted November 6, 2019 Share that chart is not endorsed by SRAM. This isn't my opinion but from the SRAM Australia Marketing Manager when I asked him the question around tiering. IIRC it was from a magazine article of drivetrains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wannabe Posted November 6, 2019 Share Shimano for fishing reels, SRAM for Mtb groupsets. sirmoun10goat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yyyy Posted November 6, 2019 Share While we're about it, who's better - the Pope or the Dalai Lama? On a serious note - I'm no fanboy, but I've heard some good things about the shifting on the new Shimano groups. I've yet to try it myself though. If you're going to do it, do it properly and use the Shimano chain and cassette, it's where most of the improvements have been made. Using shifter and RD with generic chain and cassette won't give you these improvement, which from what I've heard is the biggest benefit of the new system. I hear you, chain and cassette are the biggest enhancements made by Shimano Opinion on a combo like this?Shimano 12 spd Cassette and ChainSram 12spd shifter and RD - even better if you have axsRotar Q ring crank Just wondering if you already have a 12spd Sram setup would there be added benefit in just moving some components to Shimano (specifically that 10- 45 cassette)? Just curious about customizations...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 6, 2019 Share Has the debate not gone on long enough that we now have to bring in semantics? Is "Fine, I will admit that I was wrong" more palatable to you? If so, fine, I will admit that I was wrong.what I meant to say that being corrected on something, and admitting you're wrong, is not a "defeat". Being defeated implies you've lost something, whereas this is just expanding your knowledge or correcting your previously held idea. There's no "defeat" at all. DieselnDust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted November 6, 2019 Share I hear you, chain and cassette are the biggest enhancements made by Shimano Opinion on a combo like this?Shimano 12 spd Cassette and ChainSram 12spd shifter and RD - even better if you have axsRotar Q ring crank Just wondering if you already have a 12spd Sram setup would there be added benefit in just moving some components to Shimano (specifically that 10- 45 cassette)? Just curious about customizations...... technically there isn't anything wrong with that option. You will need a Microspline freehub which means a shimano rearhub, or a DT240s/350. Industry 9 may have their wheels available in Sa by year end or wait till April for Hope Yyyy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosefat Posted November 6, 2019 Share what I meant to say that being corrected on something, and admitting you're wrong, is not a "defeat". Being defeated implies you've lost something, whereas this is just expanding your knowledge or correcting your previously held idea. There's no "defeat" at all. My admission of "defeat" was a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to be condescending about it nonky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 6, 2019 Share My admission of "defeat" was a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to be condescending about itI'm not being condescending at all, but I cannot help it if you think I am. My point remains, though. It's not a "defeat" and I wish more people realised that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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