XT 12 speed vs Sram 12spd

[DieselnDust]

I thought that XT and XO1 were comparable?

 

I am running XX1 Eagle coming from 11 speed XTR. I still miss the shifting options of XTR and the cost.

 

 

XT is comparable to GX.

 

XO1 is more comparable to XTR. XX1 uses hollowed out titanium pivot shafts in the derailleur, carbon pulley cage with an aluminium joiner plate at the back. XTR is all alloy and stainless steel, similar to XO1.

The XO1 shifter uses stainless mounting hardware as does the XTR. XX1 uses titanium.

Functionally XO1 and XX1 are the same. much like XTR race and and XTR trail used to be.

[Headshot]

My experience is on 10 and 11 speed but id have to give it to Shimano. My Saint shifter is flawless and the double upshifts are a major drawcard. GX looks and feels lower budget than XT especially that ugly derailleur. When the Lotto comes in Im going XTR.

[Monark]

XT is comparable to GX.

 

XO1 is more comparable to XTR. XX1 uses hollowed out titanium pivot shafts in the derailleur, carbon pulley cage with an aluminium joiner plate at the back. XTR is all alloy and stainless steel, similar to XO1.

The XO1 shifter uses stainless mounting hardware as does the XTR. XX1 uses titanium.

Functionally XO1 and XX1 are the same. much like XTR race and and XTR trail used to be.

Ah okay, I didn't look at it that way but rather how they are marketed to the public at large.

[DieselnDust]

Ah okay, I didn't look at it that way but rather how they are marketed to the public at large.

SRAM doesn't market its mtb or road line as equivalent products to other brands.

They look at it from a user group perspective.

XX1 is for XCO racing

X01 is for XCM /enduro /trail

GX is for mtb enthusiasts

NX is for the budget conscious and entry level

SX is an OEM level group.

 

Hence you can mix and match Cranks brakes drive train and not be out of sync because you can tailor the parts to your exact requirements without it looking and sounding like a mishmash group

 

Shimano tends to tier their products in the same way Campagnolo does.

[Christie]

It is fair to compare similarly priced gruppos, That would mean XT vs GX?

 

Imo GX Eagle is inferior to XT, if you have not comitted to a freehub, go Shimano

 

I cant compare XTR to XO1, but my 11s Shimano XTR has been awesome, while my GX Eagle deraileur fell appart for no reason.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Christie

[Monark]

We have both GX and XT 12 speed groupsets in our little group and the XT seems to be the much better product. From finish of the actual product to performance.

[Monark]

SRAM doesn't market its mtb or road line as equivalent products to other brands.

They look at it from a user group perspective.

XX1 is for XCO racing

X01 is for XCM /enduro /trail

GX is for mtb enthusiasts

NX is for the budget conscious and entry level

SX is an OEM level group.

 

Hence you can mix and match Cranks brakes drive train and not be out of sync because you can tailor the parts to your exact requirements without it looking and sounding like a mishmash group

 

Shimano tends to tier their products in the same way Campagnolo does.

I never said that they market them in comparison but they both have their halo specification - XX and XTR respectively so one would rightfully assume that they are in direct competition.

 

At UCI worlds level you only really see XX and XTR.

[DieselnDust]

I never said that they market them in comparison but they both have their halo specification - XX and XTR respectively so one would rightfully assume that they are in direct competition.

 

At UCI worlds level you only really see XX and XTR.

 

 

Yes its natural to compare the top of the line products. Whats I'm saying is that X01 is right there with a XX1 and therefore directly comparable to XTR.

 

There are a few smaller teams and privateers using the X01 AXS. I've never seen XT at a UCI WC race yet.

[DieselnDust]

We have both GX and XT 12 speed groupsets in our little group and the XT seems to be the much better product. From finish of the actual product to performance.

 

 

I'm assuming the XT parts are a lot newer than the GX parts? Out of the box, set up correctly both work flawlessly. XT shifts a little smoother thanks to the chain being a little more loose on the cassette and chainrings and therefore runs a little quieter too.

A new XX1 chain on a GX chainring and cassette has zero play between the teeth of the sprockets and chainrings.

[Jehosefat]

Yes its natural to compare the top of the line products. Whats I'm saying is that X01 is right there with a XX1 and therefore directly comparable to XTR.

 

There are a few smaller teams and privateers using the X01 AXS. I've never seen XT at a UCI WC race yet.

 

And the new 12-speed XT is right up there with XTR (only material difference is weight) and therefore directly comparable as well.

 

Possibly because 12-speed XT is brand new (and not available in Di2 yet).

 

I'm not sure what points you are trying to make beyond you blatant bias against anything Shimano?

[DieselnDust]

And the new 12-speed XT is right up there with XTR (only material difference is weight) and therefore directly comparable as well.

 

Possibly because 12-speed XT is brand new (and not available in Di2 yet).

 

I'm not sure what points you are trying to make beyond you blatant bias against anything Shimano?

 

 

there are several mechanical differences between XT and XTR.

Different materials

XTR shifter  has 4 bearings

XT shifter has 2 bearings

totally different crank design

totally different cassette construction.

 

these differences are more in line with the differences between XX1/X01 and GX

 

the difference in tactile feel between XX1 and GX is similar to the tactile difference between XTR and XT i..e almost nothing at all.

 

 

Durability? Who knows, Shimano M9100/M8100/M7100 has only been on SA shelves for a couple of months whereas Eagle has been in the warzone since 2016

[Long Wheel Base]

XT is comparable to GX.

 

XO1 is more comparable to XTR. XX1 uses hollowed out titanium pivot shafts in the derailleur, carbon pulley cage with an aluminium joiner plate at the back. XTR is all alloy and stainless steel, similar to XO1.

The XO1 shifter uses stainless mounting hardware as does the XTR. XX1 uses titanium.

Functionally XO1 and XX1 are the same. much like XTR race and and XTR trail used to be.

Last time I saw so many Xs in one paragraph was in a porn magazine.

[droo]

While we're about it, who's better - the Pope or the Dalai Lama?

 

On a serious note - I'm no fanboy, but I've heard some good things about the shifting on the new Shimano groups. I've yet to try it myself though. If you're going to do it, do it properly and use the Shimano chain and cassette, it's where most of the improvements have been made. Using shifter and RD with generic chain and cassette won't give you these improvement, which from what I've heard is the biggest benefit of the new system.

Edited November 6, 2019 by droo

[Jehosefat]

there are several mechanical differences between XT and XTR.

Different materials

XTR shifter  has 4 bearings

XT shifter has 2 bearings

totally different crank design

totally different cassette construction.

 

these differences are more in line with the differences between XX1/X01 and GX

 

the difference in tactile feel between XX1 and GX is similar to the tactile difference between XTR and XT i..e almost nothing at all.

 

 

Durability? Who knows, Shimano M9100/M8100/M7100 has only been on SA shelves for a couple of months whereas Eagle has been in the warzone since 2016

 

So of your 5 differences there are actually only 2:

Different materials

More bearings in the shifter

 

If you want to use "tactile feel" your exact argument could be made to say that SLX "feels" almost the same as "XT" and therefore SLX is equivalent to GX.

 

Let's be honest, apart from your fixation on SRAM being better than Shimano, there are really very few material differences between XX1 and XTR. Weight is very similar (like for like I believe XTR is slightly lighter), shift quality is arguably the same (although the feel is probably down to personal preference) and as you said, the new XTR hasn't really been around long enough to compare durability. For all your talk of different materials ("hollowed out titanium pivot shafts" for example) the only reason that was chosen was related to my 3 points; namely: weight, shift quality and durability. And getting to the same weight, shift quality and durability with different materials doesn't make either option better or worse

[DieselnDust]

So of your 5 differences there are actually only 2:

Different materials

More bearings in the shifter

 

If you want to use "tactile feel" your exact argument could be made to say that SLX "feels" almost the same as "XT" and therefore SLX is equivalent to GX.

 

Let's be honest, apart from your fixation on SRAM being better than Shimano, there are really very few material differences between XX1 and XTR. Weight is very similar (like for like I believe XTR is slightly lighter), shift quality is arguably the same (although the feel is probably down to personal preference) and as you said, the new XTR hasn't really been around long enough to compare durability. For all your talk of different materials ("hollowed out titanium pivot shafts" for example) the only reason that was chosen was related to my 3 points; namely: weight, shift quality and durability. And getting to the same weight, shift quality and durability with different materials doesn't make either option better or worse

 

 

I'm not saying that SRAM is better and I'm not saying that Shimano is poor.

Those comments are coming from Shimano fans,

Each has its own unique feel.

Each goes about doing the same in ways that does not infringe on the others patents.

 

You'll never read a review of a shimano product without the owner of the components calling the competitors products crap.Yet SRAM and Campagnolo fans don't need to draw distinction to Shimano products when describing either SRAM or Campagnolo. This is most likely because they're far less insecure about the their choice of hardware

[Jehosefat]

I'm not saying that SRAM is better and I'm not saying that Shimano is poor.

Those comments are coming from Shimano fans,

Each has its own unique feel.

Each goes about doing the same in ways that does not infringe on the others patents.

 

You'll never read a review of a shimano product without the owner of the components calling the competitors products crap.Yet SRAM and Campagnolo fans don't need to draw distinction to Shimano products when describing either SRAM or Campagnolo. This is most likely because they're far less insecure about the their choice of hardware

 

So saying XTR is directly comparable to XO1 is not the same as saying that XX1 is better than XTR?

 

Someone should let SRAM know that their flagship product is no better than their second tier product (or congratulate them on duping so many people into paying a premium price for something identical.)

 

You might also like to note that I have never attacked the SRAM products, I'm disagreeing with your categorisation of the two product lines. Both companies make fantastic products, I just think it's disingenuous of you to effectively make the statement that the best drivetrain you can get is SRAM XX1 because as far as I can tell, it is no better than XTR.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jehosefat