Hardtail VS Full Suspension

[Skubarra]

43 minutes ago, Super Sywurm said:

Lekker wide tyres and a nice steel frame together make a soft(ish) ride.

I have never felt wider and softer tyres can really compensate enough for the lack of suspension, but maybe I just have one of those older HTs that rattle your teeth!

That said I the vibes I pick up from the OP is that he has already decided to get a HT, its really just up to the hub to help decide which one! 🤣

[Super Sywurm]

2 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

I have never felt wider and softer tyres can really compensate enough for the lack of suspension, but maybe I just have one of those older HTs that rattle your teeth!

That said I the vibes I pick up from the OP is that he has already decided to get a HT, its really just up to the hub to help decide which one! 🤣

A nice HT can't compare to a DS.  You can take some of the harshness out of your ride.

[Me rida my bicycle]

1 hour ago, _David_ said:

and don't forget the improvement to MTB tyres. We can now buy much wider tyres and that helps a lot with traction and comfort.

True the fat tyres do make a difference but my bike is still comfortable with 42c gravel tyres on.

On the old stiff frames they would sell you a kidney belt with those gravel tyres. 🤣

[Phillippe Coetzee]

4 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

I have never felt wider and softer tyres can really compensate enough for the lack of suspension, but maybe I just have one of those older HTs that rattle your teeth!

That said I the vibes I pick up from the OP is that he has already decided to get a HT, its really just up to the hub to help decide which one! 🤣

Possibly XD, not in a rush waiting for the correct deal to pop up.
One way I knew was whenever someone posts something about a HT I agreed and liked it and whenever a DS was posted in the forum I was searching for a reason why the HT will be better, So I was searching for reasons to go HT and that alone tells me that I decided to go HT

but always nice to hear peoples thoughts and opinions

[Super Sywurm]

6 minutes ago, Phillippe Coetzee said:

Possibly XD, not in a rush waiting for the correct deal to pop up.
One way I knew was whenever someone posts something about a HT I agreed and liked it and whenever a DS was posted in the forum I was searching for a reason why the HT will be better, So I was searching for reasons to go HT and that alone tells me that I decided to go HT

but always nice to hear peoples thoughts and opinions

Silverback Superspeed?

[Phillippe Coetzee]

1 minute ago, Super Sywurm said:

Silverback Superspeed?

Definetly a option or a Merida, but would love a Scott  But to get XL's is quite hard, easier to get a L Superspeed

[Super Sywurm]

4 minutes ago, Phillippe Coetzee said:

Definetly a option or a Merida, but would love a Scott  But to get XL's is quite hard, easier to get a L Superspeed

I would love a Superspeed.

[dave303e]

18 hours ago, gemmerbal said:

Ì like these frames... would make an awesome gravel monster bike I reckon!

if I won the lottery I wouldn't tell anyone, but there would be signs...

[Phillippe Coetzee]

9 minutes ago, Super Sywurm said:

I would love a Superspeed.

There is one nice frame available so debating on that 😁

[Super Sywurm]

20 minutes ago, Phillippe Coetzee said:

There is one nice frame available so debating on that 😁

I saw that a couple of days ago and I added it to my favorites list.

[Headshot]

If you're just riding jeep track and decent gravel roads, a HT is just fine. If its a bit rougher you will need to get used to it but a fat rear tyre (2.4 on up) is a good idea. I run a 26" enduro HT at Tokai sometimes and have also fitted an insert at the rear (Nukeproof). This combo makes a big difference to the felt impacts of rough terrain, 

[ajnkzn]

My bike history might help Phillippe or anybody with the same / similar dilemma.

 

It's amazing how the people that you ride with (I started as tar / gravel, moved to trail / enduro, drifting more to marathon XC, gravel and light trail) and the area you ride (originally Durban for me, now KZN Midlands) determines what you feel is the "right bike" and how this changes with the above two factors shifting over time.

 

I've really swung the pendulum on my bikes over the last 10 years or so as I got into riding (don't judge how many there are, I have generally at least not lost money on the bikes I've bought and sold 😆);

 

Cannondale Trail 29 Hardtail (HT) - great first bike - 2 000km on it and was great for tar and gravel.

Spez Epic HT - amazing upgrade from the basic Cannondale - 3 800km on it mostly tar, gravel and a Sani2C.

Spez Chisel HT - 1 600km - bought this as I the med Epic HT was a bit too small so bought the Chisel in a Large. Great bike with lighter Roval wheels. Sold as I was getting more into trail riding.

Silverback Slade Trail HT - 450km - 140mm fork, 2.6 tyres. Great bike on the trails but I bought quite a well used one and wanted something a bit lighter and newer.

Kona Carbon Honzo Trail HT - 750km - 130mm fork, 2.3 tyres. Lovely, beautiful bike. In hindsight the next 3-4 bikes were probably unnecessary and I should have kept this and upgraded the wheels. 

Specialized Carbon Stumpjumper ST - 1 700km. Beautiful bike, perfect for Karkloof trail riding but a bit heavy and not the best pedaling bike for long gravel rides and tar.

Curve Kevin of Steel gravel bike - 1 750km. Set up on 650b wheels. Super comfortable and definitely fast enough for any sub elite rider. So versatile on everything from tar to gravel to jeep track to tame singletrack.

Cannondale Scalpel Si - 1 700km. Sold the Stumpy and Curve to have one bike as I am someone who likes to keep things simple and felt that this would do the job of a gravel bike, XC race machine and light duty trail bike well. It did, great bike with a lot of PRs on trail segments and some big (for me) gravel days done in comfort and speed.

Santa Cruz Tallboy 4 - currently on 3 300km. A friend offered this bike to me at a good price and it was one model I'd always loved so I had to go for it. Hugely versatile bike that feels like a monster truck through a rock garden but was still fast and comfortable for a few stage races and a lot of tar and gravel riding too. A lot of work to clean / look after in mud being a dual sus and while light ish for a trial bike (13.5kg), it's not super fast (but then how many of us are actually held back by the bike rather than lack of skills and fitness?). Super tricky one as I don't really like having two bikes and the new machine below is ticking a lot of boxes, especially with most of my enduro trail buddies not riding much anymore.

Cannondale Scalpel HT - only on 375km thus far. 10kg carbon frame, carbon wheel rocketship that, with a dropper, is still super fast and fun to ride on all of the non-extreme Karkloof trails. Cleaning and maintenance are obviously going to be a heap easier than a dual sus machine. I've been amazed what wide carbon rims and 2.4 Wide Trail tyres offer in terms of comfort / lower pressures. It's obviously not a dual sus but really, at 1.4 bar rear and 1.3 bar front on Maxxis Aspens, it's compliant and mutes most of the trail buzz really well. I think this bike will be perfect for training, any gravel race, Sani2C or Berg and Bush but Cape Epic looks like it definitely demands a dual sus.

 

You need to be honest with yourself about how seriously you want to take things, your appetite / budget for maintenance (or time available to DIY stuff at home), who you ride with, where you ride, what races you're likely to do.

 

The first post, to me, suggests that a 10kg hardtail with fast rolling 2.4 tyres might be the perfect bike as it still allows an MTB stage race or occasional trial riding day, whereas a gravel bike excludes those two possibilities while offering only a minor speed increase on gravel.

 

Good luck with the decision - worst case you get to try a few different bikes, sell them and buy others until you find the perfect bike (until the next perfect one comes along haha).

[TyronLab]

Out of all of the options out there, there's no one bike that is perfect for every situation, unless you only ride one type of thing and only that thing.

To me, you need to understand why you're riding and what you want to get out of it. Unless you're really at the pointy end of the field and you're looking for every advantage you can, ride what feels lekker. At the end of the day, ride the bike that is "you". The one that makes you stop at the end of the ride and stand and stare at it in the garage for a minute before you go in the house.

I've had some of my best rides on bikes that were very far from what would be considered "optimal". 

My riding is very similar to yours. A bunch of road miles in the week, longer distance road and gravel mixed routes on the weekends with trails thrown in the mix (mostly with tar commutes to the trails). That's why I ride rigid MTBs and gravel bikes. They're not the perfect bike for most of the rides, but it puts a smile on my face more than any other bike.

[Phillippe Coetzee]

50 minutes ago, ajnkzn said:

My bike history might help Phillippe or anybody with the same / similar dilemma.

 

It's amazing how the people that you ride with (I started as tar / gravel, moved to trail / enduro, drifting more to marathon XC, gravel and light trail) and the area you ride (originally Durban for me, now KZN Midlands) determines what you feel is the "right bike" and how this changes with the above two factors shifting over time.

 

I've really swung the pendulum on my bikes over the last 10 years or so as I got into riding (don't judge how many there are, I have generally at least not lost money on the bikes I've bought and sold 😆);

 

Cannondale Trail 29 Hardtail (HT) - great first bike - 2 000km on it and was great for tar and gravel.

Spez Epic HT - amazing upgrade from the basic Cannondale - 3 800km on it mostly tar, gravel and a Sani2C.

Spez Chisel HT - 1 600km - bought this as I the med Epic HT was a bit too small so bought the Chisel in a Large. Great bike with lighter Roval wheels. Sold as I was getting more into trail riding.

Silverback Slade Trail HT - 450km - 140mm fork, 2.6 tyres. Great bike on the trails but I bought quite a well used one and wanted something a bit lighter and newer.

Kona Carbon Honzo Trail HT - 750km - 130mm fork, 2.3 tyres. Lovely, beautiful bike. In hindsight the next 3-4 bikes were probably unnecessary and I should have kept this and upgraded the wheels. 

Specialized Carbon Stumpjumper ST - 1 700km. Beautiful bike, perfect for Karkloof trail riding but a bit heavy and not the best pedaling bike for long gravel rides and tar.

Curve Kevin of Steel gravel bike - 1 750km. Set up on 650b wheels. Super comfortable and definitely fast enough for any sub elite rider. So versatile on everything from tar to gravel to jeep track to tame singletrack.

Cannondale Scalpel Si - 1 700km. Sold the Stumpy and Curve to have one bike as I am someone who likes to keep things simple and felt that this would do the job of a gravel bike, XC race machine and light duty trail bike well. It did, great bike with a lot of PRs on trail segments and some big (for me) gravel days done in comfort and speed.

Santa Cruz Tallboy 4 - currently on 3 300km. A friend offered this bike to me at a good price and it was one model I'd always loved so I had to go for it. Hugely versatile bike that feels like a monster truck through a rock garden but was still fast and comfortable for a few stage races and a lot of tar and gravel riding too. A lot of work to clean / look after in mud being a dual sus and while light ish for a trial bike (13.5kg), it's not super fast (but then how many of us are actually held back by the bike rather than lack of skills and fitness?). Super tricky one as I don't really like having two bikes and the new machine below is ticking a lot of boxes, especially with most of my enduro trail buddies not riding much anymore.

Cannondale Scalpel HT - only on 375km thus far. 10kg carbon frame, carbon wheel rocketship that, with a dropper, is still super fast and fun to ride on all of the non-extreme Karkloof trails. Cleaning and maintenance are obviously going to be a heap easier than a dual sus machine. I've been amazed what wide carbon rims and 2.4 Wide Trail tyres offer in terms of comfort / lower pressures. It's obviously not a dual sus but really, at 1.4 bar rear and 1.3 bar front on Maxxis Aspens, it's compliant and mutes most of the trail buzz really well. I think this bike will be perfect for training, any gravel race, Sani2C or Berg and Bush but Cape Epic looks like it definitely demands a dual sus.

 

You need to be honest with yourself about how seriously you want to take things, your appetite / budget for maintenance (or time available to DIY stuff at home), who you ride with, where you ride, what races you're likely to do.

 

The first post, to me, suggests that a 10kg hardtail with fast rolling 2.4 tyres might be the perfect bike as it still allows an MTB stage race or occasional trial riding day, whereas a gravel bike excludes those two possibilities while offering only a minor speed increase on gravel.

 

Good luck with the decision - worst case you get to try a few different bikes, sell them and buy others until you find the perfect bike (until the next perfect one comes along haha).

Thank you for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. Luckily all the bikes I owned and sold I always make a profit 😂 Since I have so much parts I upgrade bikes for cheaper etc. 
 

I also have a set off 2.4 Aspens that will go onto the new bike, love that tyres. 
 

My argument is, (Based on my riding type and what I like.
No need for a dual sus for the type of riding I do, I put Tar miles on the rear shock and not trail miles if It makes sense 😂 But there is still sections where there is a few Meters of gravel on my weekly rides plus side walks etc so I need something with suspension, so that why I think the HT will be perfect, something fast, low on maintenance and it has suspension if I go over something, and the tyres are wide if There is a gravel section.
 

I have decided that I am going HT, worst case If I dont like it, I find the next thing, luckily we have this wonderful platform where we can spend more than our budgets 😂

For now I will search for a lekker deal and before I find it Ill continue with my dual sus until I find the bike I want 😊

 

Drop a pic of your Cannondale will be nice to see it 😁 

[MatBlack]

Did just over 18hrs and 210kms last year in some pretty horrid conditions on a hardtail. At that time...if i had any nuts left I would of gladly traded at least one of them for a dual sus. Some pretty spectacular conditions made me consider a DS...looking back i would still use a hardtail but just specced better for what i was doing.

[Phillippe Coetzee]

56 minutes ago, MatBlack said:

Did just over 18hrs and 210kms last year in some pretty horrid conditions on a hardtail. At that time...if i had any nuts left I would of gladly traded at least one of them for a dual sus. Some pretty spectacular conditions made me consider a DS...looking back i would still use a hardtail but just specced better for what i was doing.

18hours is long, I cant even lay 18hours on a bed 😂 Nevermind sit on a saddle