SAfm Training Tips

[BikeMax]

 

I think the point we are questioning is the quantity.

 

Let's say you do 4 hours at IF (Intensity Factor) 0.75' date=' which is the bottom end of endurance intensity (or just above recovery riding intensity)

 

Your training stress score for the day would be:

 

TSS = 4 x 0.75 x 100 = 300 (which you typically wouldn't be fully recovered from the next day).

 

Now lets say you do that 6 times a week then TSS/wk = 1800

 

You won't find many pro's that can accumulate that kind of training stress week in week out, let alone a beginner or untrained cyclist

 

And this is riding at the absolute bottom end of the endurance level.  So, what you'll end up with is someone that can ride slowly for very long periods.

[/quote']

How does this TSS work?

How much TSS should one be able to recover from in a day and in a week?

4x0.75x100=300 seems easy for a single day, but 3x1x100=300 or 2x1.5x100=300 or 1x3x100=300 seem increasingly impossible.

 

• Less than 150 - low (recovery generally complete by following day)
• 150-300 - medium (some residual fatigue may be present the next day, but

  gone by 2nd day)

• 300-450 - high (some residual fatigue may be present even after 2 days)

• Greater than 450 - very high (residual fatigue lasting several days

  likely)

You are correct that it is easier to rack up TSS with volume than intensity due to the fact that the algorithm used to caluclate TSS is volume weighted (as volume has a bigger effect on fatigue) - even more reason why this programme is wrong.

 

To do 3 x 1 hour rides at TT pace in one day would be impossible due to the fact that a rider would not be able to hold that power output for 3 hours (as by definition it is 60 min power)

 

So the content of the ride will dictate the TSS achievable.

 

As you can see though - the recovery form 300 TSS is deemed to be 2 days at least...

 

 

[101%]

How did this become a topic about giving out advice on complex training methods...This program sounds like it would be aimed at your everyday fun riders who knows jack! about wattts and factors . the tools you guys

are talking about that allows one to train like that  costs more than most bikes the normal guy off the street rides. If you some saught of expert in training then try give out some advice about improving your goals with out braking your bank acc.

[bruce]

Well, the original advice is from the South African Team Coach and is saying that in order to ride a 3:30 Argus a beginner rider is going to ride 4 hours a day for 6 days a week.  Hardly the kind a program a beginner is going to be able to handle.

[BikeMax]

 

How did this become a topic about giving out advice on complex training methods...This program sounds like it would be aimed at your everyday fun riders who knows jack! about wattts and factors . the tools you guys

are talking about that allows one to train like that  costs more than most bikes the normal guy off the street rides. If you some saught of expert in training then try give out some advice about improving your goals with out braking your bank acc.

 

Noted..

 

But to be fair, all we have been doing is to use current thinking and science to explain why the programme that has been touted is so far off the mark.

 

It has not been the intention to use science to blind, and if this has been the case then I am sorry.

 

Good training advice does not need to be expensive but should be based on sound scientific principles.

 

[bruce]

Okay, so what would the consensus be when giving a novice cyclist advice on how to break 3:30 for the Argus with 3 months of training?

 

Assuming no tools such as HR monitor, power meter etc etc.

[IanJ]

I always thought Chris Carmichael's programme was pretty good for a beginner. I used it for the 94.7 last year and it worked pretty well for me but that was the intermediate programme.

I think it was published in one of the local mags.

[bruce]

My brother-in-law did the one published in Bicycling Magazine 8 weeks before the 94.7.  He is in his late 40s and hasn't done any exercise for quite a few years.  He managed to ride 3h52 which I thought was a good effort.

 

One thing I noticed with a person that is so untrained, it is almost impossible to keep heartrate low - i.e. 60% - 75%.

[goofs]

My future brother in law got the begginers training programme from Cyclelab and followed it quite religeously training from August and achieved a 3.27 in the 94.7, at this rate he'll soon be catching me. Nice thing is they include recovery days, which is essential.

[IanJ]

My brother-in-law did the one published in Bicycling Magazine 8 weeks before the 94.7.  He is in his late 40s and hasn't done any exercise for quite a few years.  He managed to ride 3h52 which I thought was a good effort.

 

One thing I noticed with a person that is so untrained' date=' it is almost impossible to keep heartrate low - i.e. 60% - 75%.

[/quote']

 

I think that programme is Carmichaels one

 

[101%]

How did this become a topic about giving out advice on complex training methods...This program sounds like it would be aimed at your everyday fun riders who knows jack! about wattts and factors . the tools you guys

are talking about that allows one to train like that  costs more than most bikes the normal guy off the street rides. If you some saught of expert in training then try give out some advice about improving your goals with out braking your bank acc.

Noted..

But to be fair' date=' all we have been doing is to use current thinking and science to explain why the programme that has been touted is so far off the mark.

It has not been the intention to use science to blind, and if this has been the case then I am sorry.

Good training advice does not need to be expensive but should be based on sound scientific principles.
[/quote']

 

I fully agree with you Bikemax! scientific training methods is the way to go.

I for one have just started using Power training tools to try improve my cycling , so I'm still a novice at all this thresh hold , watts and power factor stuff. Most of its is still greek to me , so I cant imagine what it must mean to some novice cyclist who's just trying to squeeze in 8 hours a week.

 

But I have yet to see a cheap method of achieving data which you and bruce are talking about, ALL of these tools are very pricey!!!!

[101%]

Okay' date=' so what would the consensus be when giving a novice cyclist advice on how to break 3:30 for the Argus with 3 months of training?

 

Assuming no tools such as HR monitor, power meter etc etc.

[/quote']

 

Me being the worst guy to ask a question like this!!! I used to and still do a bit believe that you should train the way you race , therefore your body would be used to the intensity. I no I no !!! thats not the correct method.

 

But one needs to be realistic . If you've never been on a bike and haven't done much cardio in the past couple of years , then there no chance of a 3:30 argus. Especially when you will be starting right at the back with no seeded group which could assist you by getting sucked along in the bunch.

 

For me the best advice to a novice attempting his first argus would be to try go out and ride consistently everyday with one day rest a week till around a week before the Argus, go out enjoy the atmosphere of this great event and most importantly "GO HAVE FUN"....But the again I'm no personal Trainer!!!

[Windbreaker]

Coincidentally Andrew Mc Clean raised the topic on SuperCycling last night - quoting Carmichael (CTS) and pretty much verified what Bikemax has been saying i.e. that LSD is NO LONGER considered to be a valid part of a training regimen. The statement was that threshold levels must be maintained between goal specific programs.

LSD allows the threshold levels to drop hence requiring significant effort to get them back up before goal specific programs can be attempted.

[bruce]

Okay' date=' so what would the consensus be when giving a novice cyclist advice on how to break 3:30 for the Argus with 3 months of training?

 

Assuming no tools such as HR monitor, power meter etc etc.

[/quote']

 

Me being the worst guy to ask a question like this!!! I used to and still do a bit believe that you should train the way you race , therefore your body would be used to the intensity. I no I no !!! thats not the correct method.

 

But one needs to be realistic . If you've never been on a bike and haven't done much cardio in the past couple of years , then there no chance of a 3:30 argus. Especially when you will be starting right at the back with no seeded group which could assist you by getting sucked along in the bunch.

 

For me the best advice to a novice attempting his first argus would be to try go out and ride consistently everyday with one day rest a week till around a week before the Argus, go out enjoy the atmosphere of this great event and most importantly "GO HAVE FUN"....But the again I'm no personal Trainer!!!

 

101%, you know what, training has gone full circle in my mind - the way that you train is exactly the way that you should be training.  You do most of your riding at Tempo pace if I'm not mistaken.  Tempo pace is the best pace for improving your sustainable power.

 

Looking at a lot of the top Vet riders in the country, yourself, Andrew, Robby Rodrigues - you guys all ride Tempo training rides because you have limited time and tempo gives the best results for the amount of time that you have - that is why it is called "Sweet Spot Training".

 

The interesting thing about the introduction of power meters etc, is that they have just proven that the way you guys ride is the best way to ride - seriously.

 

Your weekly 40k TT is exactly what modern coaches are recommending.

[bikemonster]

Okay' date=' so what would the consensus be when giving a novice cyclist advice on how to break 3:30 for the Argus with 3 months of training?

 

Assuming no tools such as HR monitor, power meter etc etc.

[/quote']

 

1. Keep it fun.  If it's not enjoyable it's not going to happen.

 

2. Keep it simple.  Ditch all the stuff about periodisation, peaking, meso-cycles and all that carp.  It may be relevant if you're looking to win the TdF but it's way OTT for a weekend warrior.  Ride 3 or 4 times a week with no rides of less than an hour and one ride of 3-4 hours.

 

3. Do some weekend racing.  You need the experience of riding in a bunch and how to live with the changes in pace.  Also, you can not expect to have any confidence of your predicted finishing time for the Argus unless you have tested yourself.

 

4. Find some buddies to ride with.  They should be slightly faster than you so that you have to sweat to stay with them but not so much faster that their azzes become a blur heading for the horizon.  Their speed will rub off on you and the guilt of missing a ride will ensure that everybody turns out to ride.  Race one another to the tops of the climbs.

 

5. Remember Eddy Merckx's advice:  Ride your bike lots.

 

 

 

[Gumpole]

Good advice BM, that is what beginner cyclists really need.

[Dr. Seuss]

 

 

 

I for one have just started using Power training tools to try improve my cycling ...

 

this is not good news!!!!

 

- i can already taste the blood in my mouth! 

 

good thing the first big race of next year is flat!