Price fixing: Live debate on SuperCycling!!!

[jmaccelari]

 

I ride with about 20 guys' date=' but only two of them are on The Hub. So the hub is not the be all and end all of cycling in South Africa.

[/quote']

All of them are on the Hub  - only two will admit it!

 

[AuctionLamb]

.AuctionLamb2008-09-29 04:39:50

[Canaris]

Why don't the distributors and shop owners have a live debate on SuperCycling so we can get to the bottom of this conspiracy????

What do the Hubbers say???Should we have a poll????

 

 

Why should they' date=' this whole debate was fuelled by a few hubbers, whom if I dare say so have limited knowledge and who definitly suffer from middle management syndrome(MMS).

(you know, that oak who always knows better and who can always do it better but never does.  BEcause there (sic-  Their) delivery is limited to lip service, some serious under achievers that have issues with people making a success of their businesses)

 

The entire debate was mainly by a few individuels who if I dare say so definitly suffer from the aforementioned, who have basically achieved very little in life and is now wanting to vent their frustration for under achieving on those who are making a go of it.

 

It's easy to chirp if you are not in the trenches, if you are not the one that is accountable.

 

Such a debate would only be harmfull to the industry and no serious good can come of it.

 

These people should rather explain the thoughtlesness behind the comments that they made, why seek to harm those that are seeking to improve/better and promote our sport.

 

Bear inmind that as an investment, a cycle shop is a bad idea, it does not generate the returns that would justify the capital that you need to invest, but these people do it anyway and as such we need to ensure that they remain around, in order for us to get what we want.

 

No online shop can quickly sort out the gears jumping at 6pm on a friday if you are racing the next morning, only you LBS can, and if he cant make a living he aint gonna be there to do that.

 

However our MMS suffering individuals cant see that, hence there (sic) reason for suffering from MMS.

 

Please guys, grow up. You actualy cant do a better job, that is why you waste your employers time persuing these vendetta's on the hub. If you focus on your work you will be able to earn more so the increase prices should not effect you

 

[/quote']

 

I have taken the liberty of editting (only slightly) your post.  HR being a editor for a living can finish off the rough bits.

 

You seem to be very annoyed at not being senior enough to be in middle management.

 

Your incohert ranting also reflect a loyalty to a LBS.  Unfortunately, it does more damage than good.  (your ranting, not yoiur loyalty).

 

Obviously, you are not a consumer who is sick of paying exhorbatant prices to float someone elses poor investment.

 

But anyway, the debate will go like this:

 

Retailer: I have to eat you know, that is way it is expensive.

Consumer:  Me too, that is why I now shop with someone else online. (by the way I have learnt (by necessity) to service my bike).

Retailer:  Don't be unfair, what about the warrantees?

Consumer:  Never needed them, never used them, and last time I returned my shimano shifters to you............

 

No need for a debate on this one.

 

Firstly I earn enough to not to worry about the prices, I actually believe they are reasonable,

Secondly I deal with a whole bunch of MMS's everyday, they only differance is I pay there salaries, even though they believe they can do my job better than I can.

Thirdly, Yes I am loyal to my local LBS, yes they have helped me a lot in the past, and yes I want to see them succeed, however due to the nature of my work (and not my LBS) I know whet the margins are, both for the wholesaler as well as the LBS, and me personaly I would rather put my money i the bank at  no risk, they don't however, their passion is what drives them and we ultimatly as the consumer get to reap the benefit of this.

 

 

my apologies for mis-interpreting your fustrations with "middle management". 

 

The emotions around this debate seems to get everyone a bit hot under the collar.

 

The big question remains, will enough people buy bicycles at the "new" improved prices to give the retailer (et al- and all) the money they so desperately (according to them) need to survive?  Does this small group believe  that the down turn in the economy only hurting them and not all the other consumers (who they expect to pay the bills)?

 

THe big economics 101 puzzle remains  when will the demand for new bicycles no longer justify or support a controlled (ie increased pricing) of the supply?

 

The social question is:  Is the industry making cycling an elitist sport only accessible to the upper class?  How will the price increases help transform the sport to a representative accessible sport for the majority of South Africa?  How does more expensive bicycles get more people to start and participate in cycling?

[David #7]

What garbage are we going to think of next?

Lets get Tiger Brands , Premier Milling and all the other bakers or Parmalat , Clover and Lancewood to discuss thier relavant Competion Commission hearings on the cooking channel.

 

We rant for how ever many pages how boring Super Cycling is and then want to add to this by a debate. Let CSA come talk nonsense instead.

[TNT1]

 

Let CSA come talk nonsense instead.

 

What, that odd bloke with the slip slops and dreadlocks? cool... I reckon stoopidccyling needs a top gear style live audience...

 

[dirtrider]

Please no ! Can we not put the CSA and this debate on the fashion channel ? Or even better what about the cartoon channel ?

[jmaccelari]

 

What garbage are we going to think of next?

Lets get Tiger Brands ' date=' Premier Milling and all the other bakers or Parmalat , Clover and Lancewood to discuss thier relavant Competion Commission hearings on the cooking channel.

[/quote']

Can we bring OPEC into the mix? I am sure their price fixing has

actually stimulated the cycling industry!!!

 

[jmaccelari]

 

 

What' date=' that odd bloke with the slip slops and dreadlocks? cool... I reckon stoopidccyling needs a top gear style live audience...

[/quote']

Is that that Carinus Lemmer guy? I have heard CSA made a BIG mistake with him:

he actually knows what is going on and is doing a decent job...

 

[TNT1]

 

 

What' date=' that odd bloke with the slip slops and dreadlocks? cool... I reckon stoopidccyling needs a top gear style live audience...

[/quote']

Is that that Carinus Lemmer guy? I have heard CSA made a BIG mistake with him:

he actually knows what is going on and is doing a decent job...

 

Ya, think that's him... dunno what kind of job he's doing, everytime I see him, I have this urge to listen to Bob Marley and get stoned...

 

[KlapperKnop]

 

my apologies for mis-interpreting your fustrations with "middle management". 

 

The emotions around this debate seems to get everyone a bit hot under the collar.

 

The big question remains' date=' will enough people buy bicycles at the "new" improved prices to give the retailer (et al- and all) the money they so desperately (according to them) need to survive?  Does this small group believe  that the down turn in the economy only hurting them and not all the other consumers (who they expect to pay the bills)?

 

THe big economics 101 puzzle remains  when will the demand for new bicycles no longer justify or support a controlled (ie increased pricing) of the supply?

 

The social question is:  Is the industry making cycling an elitist sport only accessible to the upper class?  How will the price increases help transform the sport to a representative accessible sport for the majority of South Africa?  How does more expensive bicycles get more people to start and participate in cycling?

[/quote']

 

KonaFan, it is simple ... I only have x amount of money to "waste" on a hobby. If the LBS increase their prices, it means my buying power of x is getting smaller; which means either I quote cycling or I look for "bargains" (whether it is negotiating with other LBS or online retail)  This will be my choice ... however if the LBS see less clients; he has two options; close his business or lower his prices ...the choice the LBS has to make ....

 

Global economic pressures do not favour any transformation plan in SA what so ever ... otherwise government would have thought of not increase the repo rate, changing street names etc. etc. etc.

KlapperKnop2008-09-29 05:33:41

[Canaris]

 

my apologies for mis-interpreting your fustrations with "middle management". 

 

The emotions around this debate seems to get everyone a bit hot under the collar.

 

The big question remains' date=' will enough people buy bicycles at the "new" improved prices to give the retailer (et al- and all) the money they so desperately (according to them) need to survive?  Does this small group believe  that the down turn in the economy only hurting them and not all the other consumers (who they expect to pay the bills)?

 

THe big economics 101 puzzle remains  when will the demand for new bicycles no longer justify or support a controlled (ie increased pricing) of the supply?

 

The social question is:  Is the industry making cycling an elitist sport only accessible to the upper class?  How will the price increases help transform the sport to a representative accessible sport for the majority of South Africa?  How does more expensive bicycles get more people to start and participate in cycling?

[/quote']

 

KonaFan, it is simple ... I only have x amount of money to "waste" on a hobby. If the LBS increase their prices, it means my buying power of x is getting smaller; which means either I quote cycling or I look for "bargains" (whether it is negotiating with other LBS or online retail)  This will be my choice ... however if the LBS see less clients; he has two options; close his business or lower his prices ...the choice the LBS has to make ....

 

at last someone else who sees it the same way as I do.

[jmaccelari]

This will be my choice ... however if the LBS see less clients; he has two options; close his business or lower his prices ...the choice the LBS has to make ....

So they either go out of business - or, hmmm: they go out of business? Sort of

a cycling retailer's Hobson's choice...

 

Yep - times are tough and some shops will close. The ones that survive will

have to charge prices they can afford to operate at and provide the service

that will make people come back...

 

[Canaris]

This will be my choice ... however if the LBS see less clients; he has two options; close his business or lower his prices ...the choice the LBS has to make ....

So they either go out of business - or' date=' hmmm: they go out of business? Sort of
a cycling retailer's Hobson's choice...

Yep - times are tough and some shops will close. The ones that survive will
have to charge prices they can afford to operate at and provide the service
that will make people come back...

 

[/quote']

 

at last a bit of intelligent debate about pricing and service.

[butafly]

lets see - Steven Meltzer, Chris Willemse, Fritz Pienaar, J&J Cycles (can't remember the okes name) and the guys from Cajees Cycles. throw them all together in the studio and let AM chair the debate. should make riviting viewing. Nah i'm dreaming, it'll never happen. or get all 6 DNF'ers, the selectors and the CSA road commisioner into the studio and let them explain their performances to us at Worlds. 

[GoLefty!!]

Why don't the distributors and shop owners have a live debate on SuperCycling so we can get to the bottom of this conspiracy????

What do the Hubbers say???Should we have a poll????

 

 

what is there to debate?

 

There is an appropriate authorities to whom a complaint can be lodged. The process will follow its course from there.

 

[Matchstix]

 

 

Why don't the distributors and shop owners have a live debate on SuperCycling so we can get to the bottom of this conspiracy????

What do the Hubbers say???Should we have a poll????

 

 

Why should they' date=' this whole debate was fuelled by a few hubbers, whom if I dare say so have limited knowledge and who definitly suffer from middle management syndrome(MMS).

(you know, that oak who always knows better and who can always do it better but never does.  BEcause there (sic-  Their) delivery is limited to lip service, some serious under achievers that have issues with people making a success of their businesses)

 

The entire debate was mainly by a few individuels who if I dare say so definitly suffer from the aforementioned, who have basically achieved very little in life and is now wanting to vent their frustration for under achieving on those who are making a go of it.

 

It's easy to chirp if you are not in the trenches, if you are not the one that is accountable.

 

Such a debate would only be harmfull to the industry and no serious good can come of it.

 

These people should rather explain the thoughtlesness behind the comments that they made, why seek to harm those that are seeking to improve/better and promote our sport.

 

Bear inmind that as an investment, a cycle shop is a bad idea, it does not generate the returns that would justify the capital that you need to invest, but these people do it anyway and as such we need to ensure that they remain around, in order for us to get what we want.

 

No online shop can quickly sort out the gears jumping at 6pm on a friday if you are racing the next morning, only you LBS can, and if he cant make a living he aint gonna be there to do that.

 

However our MMS suffering individuals cant see that, hence there (sic) reason for suffering from MMS.

 

Please guys, grow up. You actualy cant do a better job, that is why you waste your employers time persuing these vendetta's on the hub. If you focus on your work you will be able to earn more so the increase prices should not effect you

 

[/quote']

 

I have taken the liberty of editting (only slightly) your post.  HR being a editor for a living can finish off the rough bits.

 

You seem to be very annoyed at not being senior enough to be in middle management.

 

Your incohert ranting also reflect a loyalty to a LBS.  Unfortunately, it does more damage than good.  (your ranting, not yoiur loyalty).

 

Obviously, you are not a consumer who is sick of paying exhorbatant prices to float someone elses poor investment.

 

But anyway, the debate will go like this:

 

Retailer: I have to eat you know, that is way it is expensive.

Consumer:  Me too, that is why I now shop with someone else online. (by the way I have learnt (by necessity) to service my bike).

Retailer:  Don't be unfair, what about the warrantees?

Consumer:  Never needed them, never used them, and last time I returned my shimano shifters to you............

 

No need for a debate on this one.

 

Firstly I earn enough to not to worry about the prices, I actually believe they are reasonable,

Secondly I deal with a whole bunch of MMS's everyday, they only differance is I pay there salaries, even though they believe they can do my job better than I can.

Thirdly, Yes I am loyal to my local LBS, yes they have helped me a lot in the past, and yes I want to see them succeed, however due to the nature of my work (and not my LBS) I know whet the margins are, both for the wholesaler as well as the LBS, and me personaly I would rather put my money i the bank at  no risk, they don't however, their passion is what drives them and we ultimatly as the consumer get to reap the benefit of this.

 

 

 

Under achiever is only relative what your view of success is.

To the fact that your bike shop helped you a lot in the past, You have the money so you spend it, nothing wrong with it, its your money. Now since the bike shop know's you as someone who will "support" their shop and make it a success, they will fight and "help" you to keep your loyalty and since they helped you, you have done nothing but bought their loyalty from them.

I used to work in a bikeshop as a student and it used to make me sick to see how bike shops will fight to keep those customers happy while some of the customers get the average treatment. The guys with the money is also the guys that get the most discount on stuff although they don't need it.

I dont mind people making a success of their business, unless they are doing it while ripping people off so that they can have a certian level living whilst saying its good business sense or I work hard.Most people work hard their income unforunately doesnt show it.. If a bike shop wants to be all bling, be that, and ripp your customers off, If they have the money they won't mind to pay for the image of where they shop. But don't drag the rest of the shops down who is really doing it because they love cycling

 The unfortunate thing is that cycling in a certain sense has become more of a fashion/image accessory than a the sport. And some Joburg suckers that don't have anything better to do with their lives get sucked up in it and fall for it.

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

 

Matchstix2008-10-03 07:00:23