Windbreaker Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 WH, I used to maintain an average of about 94. I used to get comments about it being high on the flats. I then started to ignore cadence and just focus on power. I found that my performance on hills went for a ball once my cadence dropped to about 84 but I could maintain on the flats better. I think everyone has a band at which they are most efficient and that they should find it and train to it. But I am not sure that the likes of Bikemax & other power guru's would agree with that.
Willehond Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks Windbreaker, I am also planning on experimenting with the power meter to find my optimal cadence, but I am just wondering if there is some real benefit in high cadence training at the start of the season? Do these guys know something I don't or are they just following old school methods that say high cadence is better? On climbs I always try to find a lighter gear to prevent the onset of cramps, plus the power seems to increase as well. still, I just want to check before I tell the ol'ballies to bugger off. They ride their bikes hard!
KlapperKnop Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Willehond ... speaking to Dave Wiseman, a veteran in cycling, told me once that doing anything > 90rpm on a flat road is high cadence, on a hill/climb of steep gradient anything > 70rpm is high cadence ... I find it is very hard to maintain a cadence above 90rpm on a steep gradient ...
bruce Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Willie, there is a big difference between track and road. On the track - speed = cadence because you only have one gear. Training your legs to continue producing power at high cadence is a very important aspect of training on the track. The same does not apply to the road because of gears and the wide range of speeds and gradients. Unless there is a major problem, i.e. you are totally under or over geared, cadence is not an important metric in road riding.
Willehond Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks Bruce, great to get confirmation from an expert! I will tell the old guys where to stick their cadence and then flood them with stats from the Powertap
Racing Hart Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 low cadence = harder effort from muscles for each individual turn of the pedals = Recruitment of a higer percentage of fast twitch musclefibres, because force of contraction is greater. This means a immediate increase in power exerted, because of the higher recruitment of fast twitch musclefibres. High cadence = lower effort from muscles for each individual turn of the pedals = Recruitment of a higher percentage of slow twitch musclefibres. Slow twitch fibres are known for their endurance capabilities, which means if you use a higher endurance slow twitch fibres your muscular endurance should be increased. Thus a balance exist for maximum results or between power and endurance.
Guest colonel Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Get on your bike and go ride and not worry about crap like that and the little yellow thing on your handlebars.
Willehond Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Get on your bike and go ride and not worry about crap like that and the little yellow thing on your handlebars. Colonel, the one thing every Dutchman has is an opinion and the desire to share it with you! (You sure your not Dutch?). I was indeed just riding my bike in the group and chatting along when I got the cadence lecture. I so wanted to say MYOB, but as you know I need the friends!
bruce Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Get on your bike and go ride and not worry about crap like that and the little yellow thing on your handlebars. ? I take it the ftp test didn't go so good
turtlek Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 i actually agree with the colonel here abut not worrying about that stuff because i race with nothing that will make my bike heavier than the 10kg's it already is i dont even race with an HRM or a speedometer and i am doing so much better than when i was because i dont have to worry about if my heart rate says 190 or 150 i just go all out till i finish!!! yes i know it is wrong but i get distracted easily and having another thing to worry about other than staying in the bunch will just make me drop easier
Willehond Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 turtlek, I agree with colonel too. Really I do! If you have time to look at you heart rate monitor/powertap when racing then your not racing hard enough! When I race or ride in a group I don't use the powertap to guide what I do, I just use it to record the data for analysis AFTERWARDS. Power is all over the place anyway when you ride and makes it very difficult to govern your ride. Stats build up though and it has to record my effort for determining training stress. Very useful stuff. There are exceptions though and I use the PT guide my effort for:1. Timetrialling. Power is great for guaging your effort.2. Specific training sessions such as intervals and tempo rides, where you want to hit the sweetspot/threshold/specific target zone.
turtlek Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 That is true williehond and i agree but in jhb where you cant even sneeze ithout the chance of being knocked over and the fact that i refuse to train indoors i would rather not worry at all
Guest colonel Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Get on your bike and go ride and not worry about crap like that and the little yellow thing on your handlebars. I take it the ftp test didn't go so good Hahahaha
Guest colonel Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 My mother is Dutch and I have the passport to prove.
Willehond Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 My mother is Dutch and I have the passport to prove. So you a Dutchman? That explain sooooo much! I tell you it drives my nuts at work. EVERY decision has to be debated again and again! At the cycling club AGM I thought the guys were going to moer each other but apparently they were just having a good time!
SwissVan Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Onthou net...! He who spins' date=' WINS. [/quote'] ...but he who grinds, kicks skinny a$$ behinds! Still don't have a valid reason for all this spinning during base training... Wildog ? The ?old blokes? were probably only trying to prevent you from overtraining or stopping you from overloading your muscles early in the season before they have had time to develop some fitness.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />The idea about spinning is centered on pedaling efficiency which loosely translated would mean pedaling with less effort to achieve the same or better speed.... OR.... To cycle the same speed or faster with less oxygen consumption. Pedaling at lower cadences (eg. 70 rpm) requires more applied force per complete revolution and more time your muscles spend in a contracting state than pedaling at say 90 rpm. While the muscles are contracting the blood flow, and hence oxygen carrying capacity to the muscles decreases. Add this all up and it means more load and quicker fatigue for your leg muscles. The rpms used above of 70 and 90 are purely examples and not to be considered "the holy grail of spinning or not spinning". You can test this theory quite easily yourself, especially during a XC mtb race or a hilly road race?Ride a race pushing a lower than normal gear up all the hills and see how long it takes before your legs blow and cannot maintain the desired speed.Then do another race but use a higher gear to spin up the hills. Or you could try the same principal on a longish Hill climb TT and then tell us which one was quicker and when your legs felt like putty. Everyone has his own ideal cadence and a PT would be a great tool to discover what works best for you.
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