Paul Kimmage

[racman]

I think I read somewhere that one was "innocent until proven guilty" ...

 

Do i suspect that LA doped ? - Absolutely!

 

Has it ever been absolutely proven ?- No!

 

So, until it is proven otherwise ....... LA Rules !!!!!!

 

[butafly]

"Kimmage knows nothing of winning" - here's something to think about.

the average speed of the TdF peleton has increased as the PEDs have become more sophisticated from ?36kph to over ?40 with the intro of EPO. Most of Lance's team from over the 7 win have been busted for using., he sits, in surrounded by his team, pulling him at whatever speed he dictates, gets to the climbs and blows away pure climbers. fantastic - great team tactics = great cyclist, yea right. He knows, that Kimmage knows that it just doesn't add up (just like Landis's great comeback). If the trolls are not worthy of interviewing him then why doesn't he just shut up and ride his bike instead of preaching about how clean today's cycling is. He can't because he is the juiced up ones. 

 

   

[Tumbleweed]

QUOTE]

 

?

 

thats what Kimmage has a problem with' date=' the perception that Lance is trying to sell that he and his fellow cyclists are performing these extraordnary feats?drug free. Kimmage realised that he couldn't?perform, even as a domestique,?without drugs. he dropped out of the sport and admitted his usage?of drugs. Kimmage knows what it takes to perform day in and day out on a bicycle with and without drugs and he is just questioning the the best cyclist the world has ever seen as to how he is able?to perform at those levels without "help". I think Lance is just a little pissed off that someone has the guts to?stand up to him?and who knows the?"little secrets and omerta" of the bunch. Lemond vs Lance - same story      

[/quote']

 

Well I'm not sure Kimmage knows exactly what it is completeing at LA's level.?People tend to forget that LA was exceptional prior to winning his first Tour.??Kimmage was doping as a domestique just to be able to hold a wheel:

 

Lets recap:

 

-:?Prior to LA getting sick, he was?a million dollar racer (3 american series win), 2 time stage winner of the Tour, and World Champion - TOP of the class.

 

-: He then goes thru the whole kemo episode. In my mind, fighting through the intense searing misery of the drugs, taught him a thing or two about managing the pain a bike race induces, no matter how long. I dont think there is anyone out there who has yet faced this experience to be able to comment.

 

-: He teams up with Bruneel, one of the most astute tactical minds in cycle racing (Bruneel was the only rider to have 'pinched' a Tour stage win from under Miguel Indurains nose, and as director winner of 8 Tours)

 

-: LA's focus then became singular - The Tour. he didn't race the classics as Merckx did. Rather he spent his time rehearsing over and over the key stages of the Tour etc etc each year for 7 YEARS.

 

-: He didnt take an off season period as the other pro's might have, rather trained all year round, in ALL conditions - sun rain snow.

 

-: In the Tours he had his own share of luck - almost bonking without his competitors taking advantage, falls, tactical tricks, and iron fisted control of a team tailored to support him?etc etc.

 

-: He didn't play 'chicken' hiding from the out of season doping contols as Rasmussen did.

 

?

 

LA is a control freak, there is no grey area?with him just black or white. You are with him or against him, period. He seems to have done what it takes to win, something Kimmage has no real clue about.

 

?

 

As Bruneel says in his Book 'We might as well win', its not for LA to prove he is clean, what more must he do??

 

Whether he doped or not, well LA isn't ever going to admit that now is he?

 

Let someone else proove it.

 

?

 

 

 

 

 

now there's a five-star post! nice one, rude

[Tumbleweed]

"Kimmage knows nothing of winning" - here's something to think about.

 

the average speed of the TdF?peleton has increased as the PEDs have become more sophisticated from ?36kph to over ?40 with the?intro of EPO.?Most of Lance's team from over the 7 win?have been busted for using.' date=' he sits, in surrounded by his team, pulling him at whatever speed he dictates, gets to the climbs and blows away pure climbers.?fantastic - great team tactics = great cyclist,?yea right. He knows, that?Kimmage knows that it just doesn't add up (just like Landis's great comeback). If the trolls are not worthy of interviewing him then why doesn't he?just shut up and ride his bike instead of preaching about how?clean today's cycling is. He can't because he is the juiced up ones.?

 

?

 

   

[/quote']

 

 

 

as a very learned hubber pointed out to me, average times mean nothing. check the paris-roubaix times and average speeds over the years.

[Tumbleweed]

 

[...]

?

 

LA is a control freak' date=' there is no grey area?with him just black or white. You are with him or against him, period. He seems to have done what it takes to win, something Kimmage has no real clue about.

 

?

 

As Bruneel says in his Book 'We might as well win', its not for LA to prove he is clean, what more must he do??

 

Whether he doped or not, well LA isn't ever going to admit that now is he?

 

Let someone else proove it.

 

?

[/quote']well, lance stopped/never started the blood controls with that doctor he annouced.

 

 

 

spot on. come back, make all the statements about catlin's project, then renege? lance has made a dog's meal of it. claim logistics? hmmmmm...the man knows of his engagements long before he does them. it is easy enough for brit trackies like cavendish and hoy to do, doesn't lance know where he'll be. a case of the juggernaut losing its load?

[SwissVan]

 

Tommorow morning is swim training' date=' yes they have indoor pools but no web cams on them....sorri

 

 

 

 

[/quote'] not sure if i want to see you in a speedo

 

At least being winter there I am sure SwissVan doesn't have a major cycling tan to contend with.

 

but he may have speedo-filling problems.

 

No problems, in fact the opposite..... after the long winter I may need to move up a size

 

 

[SwissVan]

[...]

 

LA is a control freak' date=' there is no grey area with him just black or white. You are with him or against him, period. He seems to have done what it takes to win, something Kimmage has no real clue about.

 

As Bruneel says in his Book 'We might as well win', its not for LA to prove he is clean, what more must he do? 

Whether he doped or not, well LA isn't ever going to admit that now is he?

Let someone else proove it.

 

[/quote']well, lance stopped/never started the blood controls with that doctor he annouced.

spot on. come back, make all the statements about catlin's project, then renege? lance has made a dog's meal of it. claim logistics? hmmmmm...the man knows of his engagements long before he does them. it is easy enough for brit trackies like cavendish and hoy to do, doesn't lance know where he'll be. a case of the juggernaut losing its load?

 

 

Its not as simple as just knowing where he will be, but to actually arrange the logistics for the independent testers. When will they do the tests so as not to intefere with official testers, keeping in mind LA does not know when and where the official UCI / WADA  testers will appear. Then there's the other logistics of transporting the independant samples and testers, which labs to use (<?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />USAon>, Europe or UCI approved)?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

The ending of the Cattlin project was a mutual agreement which both parties agreed to.

 

Admittedly from a public perspective the demise of the Cattlin project before it even got off the ground does not do LA?s publicity war and good.

 

While the idea to try and prove his point (being clean) was admirable the logistics thereof must be a nightmare

Think about it his chosen lifestyle cannot be easy to facilitate: Racing in Oz, USAon> and Europe, Giro / TDF training, UCI /WADA /USAon> cycling dope tests, LA Foundation work, seeing his kids etc?

 

 

[SwissVan]

Kimmage is on a crusade' date=' which is fine but he is on a crusade that has been carefully selected. i.e. he is very outspoken about the one person who is guaranteed to keep him in the spotlight constantly. You have to ask the question about why he has not shown the same vigour in pursuing roche (for example).So I don't buy the bit about spending time with slipstream because they demonstrated "clean traits" that he was so interested in pursuing. He makes his real reasons known when he notes the past links between certain people on the team to LA. He just wanted to be close to individuals who he could milk for more dirt on LA. His motives are just as questionable as the object of his crusade (and major source of income???) He is a leech.
[/quote']
surely that could be said of daniel coyne, and others who have written about him?

i'm interested in your thoughts on another one of lance's enemies in the media: david walsh.

Don't recall having read anything by coyne so can't comment. The thing that I dislike about Kimmage is that he is two-faced and dishonest about his pursuit of LA. He has selected LA because it is good for his pocket. edit - There are many more cyclists that eh could write about with a lot more first hand facts - like roche and some of his other team mates but instead he avoids them completely but is happy to take LA on because he is an easy & lucrative target.

I read "From Lance to Landis" hoping to get some sort of a balanced picture of doping & cycling during the era generally but stopped at about page 315 of 330 when it became painfully obvious that the title was completely misleading. There really isn't anything "From Lance to Landis" about it. There is nothing other than the usual LA crap over and over and over and over ...

So yes, Walsh is also on the LA gravy train too.

 

Kimmage may be dishonest and 2 faced in his pursuite of LA, but Lance is dishonest and 2 faced with the cycling world.

 

I know there are alot of LA fans out there and on this forum but to me he is a cheat, lier and a giver of false hope to people. To me that alot worse than anything else.

 

I can understand the cheat and liar part (time will tell whether these are fact) but not the "a giver of false hope to people" <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Care to expand on your reasons for this statement?

 

 

[Slowbee]

guys been reading through this and it seems a bit obvious that there is alot of money at stake, especially for Lance.

 

So just how "unbiased" are the UCI/WADA testers ? With so much money, would it be easy to bribe an official to swop samples? Maybe alter a result, or at least leak shedules for when testing will occur ?

 

 

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Corruption is always possible, unless you are JZ.

[Tumbleweed]

guys been reading through this and it seems a bit obvious that there is alot of money at stake' date=' especially for Lance.So just how "unbiased" are the UCI/WADA testers ? With so much money, would it be easy to bribe an official to swop samples? Maybe alter a result, or at least leak shedules for when testing will occur ?

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

they way i understood it, he's not getting paid.

[Tumbleweed]

Corruption is always possible' date=' unless you are JZ.

[/quote']

 

 

 

power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[DeltaOscar]

I read Kimmage's book about 10 years ago, and was left with the impression that he was a bit of a whiner, not particularly talented and resorted to doping because everyone else was doing it.

Even when he doped he couldn't hack it.

Wonder if he'd be so vocal about doping if it had worked better for him?

 

As for LA, well he beat everyone who mattered, and all of them got caught out cheating at one time or another. He didn't.

So either he's the best, strongest rider ever, or he's the best cheat ever.

Whichever one, he still did it better than everyone else.

 

And I think LA just doesn't like Kimmage, plain and simple.

[TNT1]

 

 

Kimmage is a wanker

 

Yay for LA!!!

 

Oh, note my new sig...

TNT12009-02-16 02:32:27

[Tumbleweed]

I read Kimmage's book about 10 years ago' date=' and was left with the impression that he was a bit of a whiner, not particularly talented and resorted to doping because everyone else was doing it.

Even when he doped he couldn't hack it.

[/quote']

i think he admits as much in the book. been a long time since i read it too.

[Omar]

I read Kimmage's book about 10 years ago' date=' and was left with the impression that he was a bit of a whiner, not particularly talented and resorted to doping because everyone else was doing it.

Even when he doped he couldn't hack it.

[/quote']

i think he admits as much in the book. been a long time since i read it too.

 

go read it again - he used amphetemines 3 times in crits and was amazed at the effect it has on his performance.

 

also go and read "Bad Blood" by Jeremy Whittle. but if you'r a Lance disciple then nothing you will read will make a difference