Paul Kimmage

[SwissVan]

If this is about Kimmage' date=' please recall his anecdote about the time he met his hero, Sean Kelly, in a sauna. After his introductions he and Kelly sat in increasingly more unpleasant conditions until it became unbearable. Kelly then asked him:"Have you ever felt like this in a race?" Kimmage rattled on about some or other mountain-top finish in one of his tours and how he was delirious in the heat/dehydration etc. He then asked Kelly "Have you ever felt like this?"

To which Kelly replied "Every race".

I suppose that's what separates winners from losers irrespective of whether or not they doped.

[/quote']

 

Yeah that is indeed the difference between us wannabes and champions(not saying your a wannabe, just a generalising).

 

I remember a friend of mine in SA who was a world class duathlete telling me one morning while cycling that he got out of bed at 10 pm the night before to go and run 8 x 1000m intervals at 10k race pace, all because he felt good and did not want to waste the oppurtunity to do some speed work.

 

Me ? I would have rolled over and left it for another day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest colonel]

If I remember correctly LA Contributes a large sum on money every year to WADA to help them financially.

 

 

So there you have it. They must be completely impartial.

about as impartial as Zim's judiciary

 

kinda ironic that wada and the uci were used to obtain the "proof" that unearthed lance's 1999 samples.

 

Another fantastic "fact"' date=' thats a good disclaimer there Colonel "If I remember correctly"

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

?If I remember correctly LA Contributes a large sum on money every year to WADA to help them financially.?

 

LA and WADA have been at each others throats on numerous occasions so I dont see why he would give them money.

 

Quote from WADA website:

For the first two full years of operation (2000?2001), WADA was funded in entirety by the Olympic Movement; a total of US$18.3 million. The IOC made this decision to allow governments appropriate time to get budgetary approvals for their 50 percent contribution. In January 2002, the agreed co-funding of WADA began with Governments providing 50 percent and the Olympic Movement 50 percent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

Sorry my life does not revolve around cycling and its inner sanctuary like you do SV, so if I got 1 company incorrect Im sorry your royal highness but as I said if I remember: meaning I read somewhere some sh*t that he gives money to the guys who are meant to bust him but clearly dont cause I believe he pays his way out.

 

So if it was WADA, USADA, ADT, CPI, ABC or Saturday Night Live (SNL) Im sorry.

[Tumbleweed]

The big problem with cycling is that it is a TEAM sport with individual rewards.

 

This being so' date=' means that the team captain or favourite can be kept clean, while the rest of the team are creative amateur pharmacists.? What the public sees is the clean smile on the podium, and not the dirt that got him there.

 

Furthermore, if a team is focused on winning the GC and not the team competition, then some sacrifices are made in terms of the team mates.? Also if the team leader (star) is focused on the win, he can bet very demanding and unpleasant when his underlings start developing ambitions of their own.

 

Although there is only speculation on LA's pharmacutical habits, most of his inner circle, Heras, Hamilton Landis, ext have all been caught out for doping.? It seems that LA's magic turns bad if you part company with him.

[/quote']

 

?

 

 

Objection your Honour!

 

The statement assumes facts not in evidence.

 

"means that the team captain or favourite can be kept clean, while the rest of the team are creative amateur pharmacists".

 

?

 

?

 

Objection your Honour!

 

The statement refers to the obvious.

 

Road cycle racing ?(duh...)

 

"Furthermore, if a team is focused on winning the GC and not the team competition, then some sacrifices are made in terms of the team mates.? Also if the team leader (star) is focused on the win, he can bet very demanding and unpleasant when his underlings start developing ambitions of their own".

 

?

 

Objection your Honour!

 

The statement is based on speculation.

 

"Although there is only speculation on LA's pharmacutical habits"

 

?

 

Objection your Honour!

 

The statemet?smells like?Bull sh*t contradiction, some of these (Hamilton, Landis)?are team leaders who as per statement 1 above dont have to dope?

 

Anyway how can the defendent be responsible for?FORMER team mates actions?

 

"most of his inner circle, Heras, Hamilton Landis, ext have all been caught out for doping.? It seems that LA's magic turns bad if you part company with him"

 

?

 

?

you are getting close to contempt, mr swissvan. another outburst like that, and i'll have you removed from this court.

 

?

 

 

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN lang=EN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-ansi-: EN">Y</SPAN><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">our Honour</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> on the grounds of preventing further dissipation of valuable time, I herby respectively request that this case be purged from the court of the hub until the troll prosecution can provide indisputable evidence supporting their case, whereupon I will remove the subject in question motif from my wall, proceed to cut into small squares and use it for bathroom tissue.

 

 

 

 

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-ansi-: EN"><?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>?

 

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-ansi-: EN"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>?

 

 

 

motion denied. and you're trying my patience with the tissue request

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Well, he either doped or didn't dope.

 

Personally, I like to think he didn't dope and it was purely the anger that fuelled him to 7 tour victories. That and the tremendous support he got from his underlings during the tours.

 

We have no proof that he doped, and as such cannot lay blame at his feet purely because he's beaten all those who have doped. It's like saying Ali put cement in his gloves because he beat Foreman, and that Rossie put 30 kilo lead weights into his competitors' bikes frames the year he went to Yamaha... Can't we just accept that he's won it fair and square, on pure and simple talent and just simple dedication?

 

And if he wins it this year? What then?

 

Oh - let me guess - he's running on Ethanol.

 

 

 

[SwissVan]

motion denied. and you're trying my patience with the tissue request

 

New Evidence your honour...Just saw the interview on EuroSport, did not take long to be on You tube. Watchit quick before LA sues youtube to remove it 

 

 

I retract my previous statement "when did LA say he admires Basso"

 

Can't say I agree 100% with his views here regarding dopers, but then everyone is entitled to his opinion and at least he stands by his.

 

 

 

SwissVan2009-02-16 12:48:43

[SwissVan]

If I remember correctly LA Contributes a large sum on money every year to WADA to help them financially.

 

 

So there you have it. They must be completely impartial.

about as impartial as Zim's judiciary

 

kinda ironic that wada and the uci were used to obtain the "proof" that unearthed lance's 1999 samples.

 

Another fantastic "fact"' date=' thats a good disclaimer there Colonel "If I remember correctly"

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

?If I remember correctly LA Contributes a large sum on money every year to WADA to help them financially.?

 

LA and WADA have been at each others throats on numerous occasions so I dont see why he would give them money.

 

Quote from WADA website:

For the first two full years of operation (2000?2001), WADA was funded in entirety by the Olympic Movement; a total of US$18.3 million. The IOC made this decision to allow governments appropriate time to get budgetary approvals for their 50 percent contribution. In January 2002, the agreed co-funding of WADA began with Governments providing 50 percent and the Olympic Movement 50 percent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

Sorry my life does not revolve around cycling and its inner sanctuary like you do SV, so if I got 1 company incorrect Im sorry your royal highness but as I said if I remember: meaning I read somewhere some sh*t that he gives money to the guys who are meant to bust him but clearly dont cause I believe he pays his way out.

 

So if it was WADA, USADA, ADT, CPI, ABC or Saturday Night Live (SNL) Im sorry.

 

Apology accepted, it would be nice if you tried harder get your facts right.

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

[Slowbee]

thanks for that clip swissvan.

 

"forgive and forget", but I dont forgive you. Incredible ?

 

 

 

[TheLegend]

 

Its not as simple as just knowing where he will be' date=' but to actually arrange the logistics for the independent testers. When will they do the tests so as not to intefere with official testers, keeping in mind LA does not know when and where the official UCI / WADA  testers will appear. Then there's the other logistics of transporting the independant samples and testers, which labs to use (USAon>, Europe or UCI approved)?

 

The ending of the Cattlin project was a mutual agreement which both parties agreed to.

 

Admittedly from a public perspective the demise of the Cattlin project before it even got off the ground does not do LA?s publicity war and good.

 

While the idea to try and prove his point (being clean) was admirable the logistics thereof must be a nightmare

Think about it his chosen lifestyle cannot be easy to facilitate: Racing in Oz, USAon> and Europe, Giro / TDF training, UCI /WADA /USAon> cycling dope tests, LA Foundation work, seeing his kids etc?

 

 

[/quote']

 

Good post, however, I know I am repeating myself now - Lance's been in the cycling business quite a bit and the logistic nightmare could definitely have been forseen by him. don't you think? (i know, a rethorical question this)

 

[Tumbleweed]

 

motion denied. and you're trying my patience with the tissue request

 

?

 

New Evidence your honour...Just saw the interview on EuroSport' date=' did not take long to be on You tube. Watchit quick before LA sues youtube to remove it?

 

?

 

 

?

 

I retract my previous statement "when did LA say he admires Basso"

 

?

 

Can't say I agree 100% with his views here regarding dopers, but then everyone is entitled to his opinion and at least he stands by his.

 

?

 

?

 

?

[/quote']

 

 

 

his words on millar were measured. he has said before that those who take a tough anti-doping stance - like simeoni - are destroying the sport. i kinda agree about basso and landis, not totally, but they've served the punishment dished out. you can't be asked to do more. do i think they're guilty? for sure. but then i think of the run of dna exonerations of death row inmates in the states.

 

 

 

 

[Tumbleweed]

Kimmage is on a crusade' date=' which is fine but he is on a crusade that has been carefully selected. i.e. he is very outspoken about the one person who is guaranteed to keep him in the spotlight constantly. You have to ask the question about why he has not shown the same vigour in pursuing roche (for example).So I don't buy the bit about spending time with slipstream because they demonstrated "clean traits" that he was so interested in pursuing. He makes his real reasons known when he notes the past links between certain people on the team to LA. He just wanted to be close to individuals who he could milk for more dirt on LA. His motives are just as questionable as the object of his crusade (and major source of income???) He is a leech.
[/quote']
surely that could be said of daniel coyne, and others who have written about him?

i'm interested in your thoughts on another one of lance's enemies in the media: david walsh.

Don't recall having read anything by coyne so can't comment. The thing that I dislike about Kimmage is that he is two-faced and dishonest about his pursuit of LA. He has selected LA because it is good for his pocket. edit - There are many more cyclists that eh could write about with a lot more first hand facts - like roche and some of his other team mates but instead he avoids them completely but is happy to take LA on because he is an easy & lucrative target.

I read "From Lance to Landis" hoping to get some sort of a balanced picture of doping & cycling during the era generally but stopped at about page 315 of 330 when it became painfully obvious that the title was completely misleading. There really isn't anything "From Lance to Landis" about it. There is nothing other than the usual LA crap over and over and over and over ...

So yes, Walsh is also on the LA gravy train too.

 

Kimmage may be dishonest and 2 faced in his pursuite of LA, but Lance is dishonest and 2 faced with the cycling world.

 

I know there are alot of LA fans out there and on this forum but to me he is a cheat, lier and a giver of false hope to people. To me that alot worse than anything else.

 

I can understand the cheat and liar part (time will tell whether these are fact) but not the "a giver of false hope to people" <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Care to expand on your reasons for this statement?

 

 

 

Armstrong's Inspiration to A Local Woman
ABC30.com - Fresno,CA,USA
Fresno, CA, USA (KFSN) -- When Lance Armstrong crosses the finish line in Clovis Wednesday afternoon, a Fresno woman will see firsthand the man that has ...
See all stories on this topic

[madison]

Kimmage seems to be condemned because he was not particularly talented & doping did not really help him, so he dicided to turn whistle blower. Will we ever know if his true motivation was revenge or because his morals got the better of him? Can we only ever trust a truly talented rider who profits from doping & then turns whistle blower? Anyone remember Jesus Manzano?

[butafly]

Kimmage seems to be condemned because he was not particularly talented & doping did not really help him' date=' so he dicided to turn whistle blower. Will we ever know if his true motivation was revenge or because his morals got the better of him? Can we only ever trust a truly talented rider who profits from doping & then turns whistle blower? Anyone remember Jesus Manzano?

[/quote']

 

if my memory serves me correctly - he rode 3 TdF's all clean and finished one. Compare that to our talented RSA  "pro's".   Got juiced up for 3 post TdF crits and was amazed at the effect it had on his performance. he decided to quit riding after he wrote a column for some newspaper after he didn't make the team for the next TdF and they offered him a job as a journalist.

i can't understand LA's argument, if LA is so anti doping why does he condemn the very people (Kimmage, Simeoni) that are trying to expose the dopers.    

[TNT1]

 

 

if my memory serves me correctly - he rode 3 TdF's all clean and finished one. Compare that to our talented RSA  "pro's".   Got juiced up for 3 post TdF crits and was amazed at the effect it had on his performance. he decided to quit riding after he wrote a column for some newspaper after he didn't make the team for the next TdF and they offered him a job as a journalist.

i can't understand LA's argument' date=' if LA is so anti doping why does he condemn the very people (Kimmage, Simeoni) that are trying to expose the dopers.    

[/quote']

 

A. There is no guarantee that arsehole kimmage is telling the truth in admitting to just the three times he juiced up. How do you know he wasn't loaded his entire career? How come people believe his "only three times" BS, but don't believe others, like Basso, who never tested positive for anything, and admitted to his involvement? Which leads us to:

B. Lance's attitude. Which in my mind is justifiably one of anger at the blatant double standards and outright lies of the press. He has never been found positive, never been sanctioned by WADA, UCI, USADA, or even the TRC. So why the un founded and un proven allegations? As a professional athlete, malicious rumours, lies, slander have a dramatic impact on his livlihood. Of course he will take all necessary steps to protect his income.

 

Right, bring the KTM squad I'm ready to fight.

 

[SwissVan]

Kimmage seems to be condemned because he was not particularly talented & doping did not really help him' date=' so he dicided to turn whistle blower. Will we ever know if his true motivation was revenge or because his morals got the better of him? Can we only ever trust a truly talented rider who profits from doping & then turns whistle blower? Anyone remember Jesus Manzano?

[/quote']

 

As you say Jesus is a good example of what I believe Kimmage is saying? that there is a drug problem in cycling that extends beyond just the riders but also to the officials, managers, sponsors, doctors, families, girlfriends, wives etc. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

One wonders if Kimmage has used Jesus as much as he has pursued Armstrong in fight against doping?

I admire Kimmage for living the cycling dream / nightmare as revealed in his book Rough Ride and also for what he is trying to do with regards to doping, but feel that his efforts are selective on who gets him the most publicity, which without any evidence is bordering on slander. He should concentrate on facts and hard evidence to achieve his goals.

Butafly "i can't understand LA's argument, if LA is so anti doping why does he condemn the very people (Kimmage, Simeoni) that are trying to expose the dopers."

Perhaps he is taking their "attacks" on him personaly, put yourself in his place and think how you would react faced with the same situation....honestly now?

 

 

[Slowbee]

TNT1, you have said that all do it, doping that is.

 

some are just better at not being caught.

 

[TNT1]

 

TNT1' date=' you have said that all do it, doping that is.

 

some are just better at not being caught.

 

[/quote']

 

Exactly. So who the f*ck gave Kimmage the right to be "protector" of cycling? Why doesn't he go after other riders? Sour grapes. Another glaring example of jealousy making you nasty? What? He is going to push Lance too far this year, and find himself sued out of his pathetic waste of a skin.