AndreZA Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 I wonder when other industries are going to jump on the bandwagon and do what it done at our service delivery departments. Imagine if you go into a bikes shop, that attendant approaches you and ask if he can help. You say yes you want a tube. you get what you want and at the till they ring it up RXXX for the tube + R20 service fee. Or do what is done at the pharmacies. They are not allowed to put up the price higher then the min RRP but they can ask "dispensing" fees. .
Wyatt Earp Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The intention following was to limit discounting by certain?shops?by having the wholesaler / importer limit or stop supply to these?discounting shops. Porky Now where on earth do you get this, have you got facts, very conclusive and substantial facts ? I have absolutely no idea where this comes from. Now I will echo what you said, please stop making childish arguments and stick to the truth. Let me guess, you are going to say "the truth, I will tell you the truth", yes the truth, without facts you are purely speculating.
Wyatt Earp Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 ....... then again maybe I'm just rambling on needlessly who knows Yes you are. Who is to say that anyone and all who were at the meeting, agreed with what was discussed. Who is to say that EVERY bike shop owner walked away from that meeting and implemented an increase. Assumption is the mother of all cock ups I dare say.
Barend de Arend Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Toyota and Subaru siting down together with PSA to decide that they need to make more money is anti competitive and therefore illegal. Have a look at a Toyota Aygo, Peugoet 107 and Citroen C1. Then tell me again they're not working together. In SA, just sitting down together, for whatever reason, gets you into trouble. And I don't want to say if this is right or wrong, or competitive or not competitive, or legal or illegal. I just wanted to point out that it helps to know who's who.
GoLefty!! Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Working together to develop a product and siting down to determine price to the consumer at the retail level are tow totally different things Many auto mnuacturers develop products together. VW sold diesel engines to Ford and co developed a MPV.BMW sold engines to LAnd RoverToyota, Peugeot have worked on smalls together before.there are lots of examples of collaboration in engineering. thats not illegal. However if their retailers sat down to discuss how much the mark up should be and how much they can discount, then you have a problem. in Sa theygot fined for such behaviour. But collaboraive engineering is not a crime
Mutt Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The intention following was to limit discounting by certain?shops?by having the wholesaler / importer limit or stop supply to these?discounting shops. Porky Now where on earth do you get this' date=' have you got facts, very conclusive and substantial facts ? I have absolutely no idea where this comes from. Now I will echo what you said, please stop making childish arguments and stick to the truth. Let me guess, you are going to say "the truth, I will tell you the truth", yes the truth, without facts you are purely speculating. [/quote'] From reading the minutes I too picked up that this was one of the aims of this infamous meeting. In fact I think many people did and from what I gather this is what has infuriated most people. Charge what you want but don't try cut off supply to a shop who provides a discount.
Barend de Arend Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Toyota does NOT own Subaru. Subaru is a subsidriary of Fuji Heavy Industries' date=' a competitor to Toyota.Fuji in fact makes components for Toyota and welding machines for their production lines.[/quote'] I guess that's why Toyota bought 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries 3 years ago... Free show for popcorn
chucky Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Lefty,dont you work for a petro company of sorts,your coments are very rich coming from you,being involved in most probaly the most corrupt and price fixing industry in this country. Secondly Andrew was invited to the meeting,he did not call for it,onse again get your facts right and put your names on it.
NotSoBigBen Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 ....... then again maybe I'm just rambling on needlessly who knows Yes you are. Who is to say that anyone and all who were at the meeting' date=' agreed with what was discussed. Who is to say that EVERY bike shop owner walked away from that meeting and implemented an increase. Assumption is the mother of all cock ups I dare say.[/quote'] Thanks for the chat Boris - all clear now
Johan Bornman Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 From: Fritz Pienaar [mailto:mm@firebreak.co.za] Sent: 17 September 2008 12:27 PM Subject: Minutes - margins in the bicycling industry Dear bicycle wholesaler and retailer' date=' Thank you for your support and great response in making our industry more healthy. Cut cut cut cut cut I have had numerous meetings with retail shops and wholesalers over the last couple of months and everyone seems to agree that the retail shops are not making enough profit and that something needs to be done about it. The bicycle wholesalers agree that a healthier retail industry would also allow for a healthier wholesale industry." We've had a great response from the meeting on 10th September 2008! With all the mayor bicycle wholesalers and retailers in Gauteng, we've all come to agreement that raising the margins is the resolution to the problem. It is of utmost importance that we sign-up and state that you support this decision, we need everyone?s support to be able to make this change and to be able to implement these changes right away. Click here to see the attendance of the meeting on 10th September 2008 Click here to see the meeting on 10th September 2008 minutes Please click here, to state if you are supportive of higher margins in the Bicycling Retail sector (We recommend that you read the minutes if you were not present at the meeting) Regards, Fritz Pienaar <?: PREFIX = SKYPE />083 275 2123 PS. Please forward this to all bike shops you know of, or wholesalers that did not attend. [/quote'] I think this is the smoking gun indeed. It is such a pity that we have not yet seen a list of attendees. Or have I missed something. This industry is rife with anti-competitive behaviour. I know of at least one retailer that phoned up a distributor mate of his and said (coerced) him not to support someone else in the industry. That distributor complied. Further, the distributor in question also then phoned a mate of his at another distrtibutor and discussed the issue with him, after which that supply chain was also cut off. This leaves one less competitor in a certain, albeit small, subsection of the market and ultimately less choice and consequently higher margins for the circle of friends who keep the market to themselves. The collusion is both formal and informal, but rife. I just wonder how many calls were made to distributors, requesting them to screw Chris Willemse Cycles when he started to discount. I get the impression the participants in this gang of friends were brazenly naive, thinking they fly under the radar in an obscure industry that's not linked to the commoddities where attention is fierce. Lets see a list of attendees. If they responded to this invitation, they knew why they were there. I'd also like to see a list of apologies or a list of people who didn't attend. This could tell us something about who the honest businesspeople may be. Some of course couldn't attend because their daughter featured in a school concert that night, but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Ben, do you have such info?
Johan Bornman Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Lefty' date='dont you work for a petro company of sorts,your coments are very rich coming from you,being involved in most probaly the most corrupt and price fixing industry in this country. Secondly Andrew was invited to the meeting,he did not call for it,onse again get your facts right and put your names on it.[/quote'] Chucky, just working for a price-fixing company doesn't make you a price-fixer. Also, working in a certain disreputable industry - DDT factory, radio-active isotope producer, tree-logger or buthery chain - does not exclude you from commenting about the industry or wanting to effect changes from within. Besides, I doubt Lefy works for Sasol. He's more of a fashion guy.
Jules Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Here is the attendance register. Apparently it is also "inaccurate" Absolut biking - Commencal Graham Terlouw Alien Cycles Mike Bosch Bester Cycles Jaco Bester Bester Cycles Peet Victor Bicicletta Shamus Kreuger Coolheat Cycle Agencies Steve Meltzer Cycle Lab Andrew Mclean Cycle Lab Brian Pienaar Cycle Lab Gary Marescia Cycle Tech Marco Swart Cytek Derek Edwards Dunkeld Cycles Merlyn Jackson Dunkeld Cycles Marc Wiederkehr Johnson Cycle Works Bassem Riad Le Peleton Eddie Brandstatter Le Peleton Dave Schemmel Maverick Cycles Mike Bradley Omnico Alan Hodson Omnico Vincent Stevens Probike Dave Wyatt Saloojee's Cycles Ebrahim Saloojee Silverback Zoon Cronje Sports pro (felt bicycles) Clive chowles Thule William Tyson Just Fun Sports (Trek) Barney Treger Just Fun Sports (Trek) Ricky Treger Hot Spot Cycles Jacques Maritz Summit Cycles Anton Bosman West Rand Cycles Eben Venter Fritz Pienaar Cycles Ervin Jacobs Fritz Pienaar Cycles Charl Theron Fritz Pienaar Cycles Fritz Pienaar Fritz Pienaar Cycles Heinrich Richter Fritz Pienaar Cycles Ruan Deyzel Cape Cycles Steven Cycles Africa Robert Cunnington The Cycle Hub Wendell Bole
AndreZA Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I like the no Cajees and Westdene. It's proberbly with them the rest have a problem with. .
TNT1 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I like the no Cajees and Westdene. It's proberbly with them the rest have a problem with. . Nice. They're the only two shops that have seen a single cent from me in like the last 5 years...
pastapouch Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 IMHO ...and now they can go, merge into one company called Soeper Saaikling SA, raise the prices with 100%, and there will be no anti competitiveness. Like others in this 'so called' open economy has done. And when poor little me start a shop, and want to import, they bribe the importer not to supply me... and I sink, and then they offer me a nice couple of Rands to merge with them ... my 1c worth. And there will be crazy competition in the cycling economy.
markStockton Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Lets see a list of attendees. I agree with mixed emotions. I'm not sure if I'd like to know if my LBS was there or not. However I am happy with the fact that I don't pay RRP at my LBS anyway. And now I'm happy as Finish Line Cycles isn't on the list. Whooopeee. However I can say the shop I used to use was definitely there, the owner admitted as much while his wife spent 2 weeks peeling off old prices and repricing every item in the store . And now appears as the last shop on the list Jules posted. markStockton2009-03-18 06:08:42
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